Bespoke Supplements

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Daytona

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Anyone use

Www.hackup.co.uk

Went to meet Alex from it today as heard a lot of people round my raving about this company.

I have to say I'm delighted, he has reduced my monthly supplement bill by 60% , yet I still achieve what I was trying to.

Vits and mineral + preventative joint supplements , all rolled into 1 and substantially cheaper...

Basically he gives you what you need without the bulk and preservatives commercial suppliers at and he cuts out the middle man etc , reducing costs which are passed onto us, bonus..!

So if your looking to save money and want quality stuff , I'd give them a try.
 
I was on the phone to him yesterday - and the formulation he has sent me looks really good. Far cheaper and simpler than the faffing around with different suppliers that I am currently doing. He was also very open about the proportions of each ingredient, so that I could make an educated decision. Most impressed
 
I was also on to him yesterday - looks like it'll work out dearer for me, as still two supplements plus I'd need to continue my general vits and mins... and supplements dearer per kilo than the ones I'm using now, with higher dosage rates :S. Also not sure re: joint supplement, as I'm not convinced by the limited evidence behind glucosamine, chondriotin and msm except as placebos (legally you can't say on human supplements that these benefit joints under EU rules as there is no evidence they do, its the vit c, d manganese and zinc that are legislated to be used for joint supplement claims), and he doesn't have much else in the joint supp! So not convinced I'd go for it :S Will need to do a proper compare of cost per day and full ingredient comparison to decide.
 
Why can't u use there vits and minerals..? Why do you need to continue using another..?


I'm getting from them, vits and mineral, stuff for her allergy, detox type thing and joints. All for 41p a day , I was £1.00 a day and what a hassle as I had 5 difo containers so glad it will now be rolled into one.

I used to do a lot of long distance running and I've had issues with my knee and hospital told me to take glucosamine so for me if it's good enough for hospital to recommend to me I'm happy to give it to my horse, in the hope it will help general wear and tear
 
Daytona said:
Why can't u use there vits and minerals..? Why do you need to continue using another..?


I'm getting from them, vits and mineral, stuff for her allergy, detox type thing and joints. All for 41p a day , I was £1.00 a day and what a hassle as I had 5 difo containers so glad it will now be rolled into one.

I used to do a lot of long distance running and I've had issues with my knee and hospital told me to take glucosamine so for me if it's good enough for hospital to recommend to me I'm happy to give it to my horse, in the hope it will help general wear and tear
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Yeah, I spoke to him about it, the two formulas he gave me were to replace the calmer and joint supp I currently use, I asked about bits and mins and he said he could give me one of those as well, but he didn't give me the ingreds to compare to my current one for that to see if it would be any better, and certainly looked more expensive on the web. The multiple supplements wouldn't have bothered me too much if it had worked out cheaper... but it didn't :(

I first got told about glucosamine etc not having much scientific support from an orthopaedic surgeon, and he said he didn't know another decent orthopaedic surgeon who would recommend it. I was really surprised, and looked into it because not only did I feed my horse it, but took it myself due to an old injury to my knee that tore one of the ligaments and has left it weak... I was always told it helped reduce inflammation. But when I looked into it after chatting to the surgeon, all the decent scientific papers pretty much say that it has no difference in effect when compared to a placebo...

Not a paper but gives an overview of the question in general: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/does-glucosamine-really-work/

Some doctors recommend it because it doesn't do any harm, and whilst there are no proven benefits there is an attitude of 'if it does not harm and might do good' - however the EU doesn't allow the sale of products for humans that claim that glucosamine, chondriotin, msm or omegas affect joint function. However I am reluctant to spend heaps of money on something that isn't proven... vit c, vit d, manganese, and zinc are proven to help maintain healthy joint function, so I look out for those - and they are way cheaper too.

Which?'s review of supplements and health claims
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2013/08/supplements---are-they-worth-it-330480/
 
Ha ha even after reading that I would not stop all the supplements I take or give my horse, something in my head makes me feel better thinking I'm helping my body and my horses :-)

As you say even if not proven it does, its not proven its does not. So for me I will keep giving them :-)

They link you posted about glucos

If you read down it to the comments from docs and vets , there is this statement

To answer your other question, there are animal studies showing benefit of both glucosamine and combination products. Search on PubMed and you will find that one of the most recent is a double-blind study (so observer bias cannot be claimed) showing improvement of stride in veteran horses; there has also been a double-blind study in arthritic dogs. BTW, I note a 2006 study by Homandberg et al finding that a G&C combination reverses fibronectin fragment-mediated cartilage damage better than either molecule alone.



So it appears it has a benefit to horses 😉
 
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I'm as sceptical as the next person when it comes to supplements, but I do notice a difference in my boy when he hasn't had his glucosamine for a week or more, so I'm happy to keep feeding it. Alex recommended an anti-inflammatory formula for Alf, which interestingly, has all the things that I felt had helped him - glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia and Turmeric. I can't source the raw ingredients to make up my own any cheaper, and nor would I want the faff, so am going to go with Alex's formula as soon as I've finished my existing supplies.
 
Interesting to read, will have to take a look at the study and see how viable it was... because there is real debate as to whether glucosamine and chondriotin can actually be uptaken efficiently by the body without degradation when given orally, and as far as I was aware there was only one really accepted quality veterinary study on glucosamine, and it had shown improvement on NSAIDS but no difference between nutraceuticals (in various forms and combinations) versus placebo. Laboratory results look great, but it is widely accepted that anyone who can show a correlation between glucosamine and improved joint health in a large scale study (you can't really look at small scale ones, not scientifically viable) would win a Nobel. Some interesting discussion here: http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php?p=1_9_Glucosamine-Chondroitin

However I think the attitude of if it does no harm and could possibly help my horses is a fair one to have.

Have worked out costings for me for the sups too:

Current joint supp - £70 per 1.6kg, fed at 13g per day - 57p per day

Hackup joint - £50 per 1kg, fed at 10-20g per day - 50p - £1 per day (So say 75p per day as an average)

Current calmer - £70 per 3 kg, fed at 25g per day - 62p per day

Hackup calmer - £45 per 1 kg, 20 g per day - 90p per day

And he didn't give me a price for the powder vit and min, so can't compare that price wise, but he did email me back to say I could continue to use my current one, at:

Current vit/min - £12 per 2kg in summer 60g per day, £35 per 3.6kg in summer 60g per day - 36p per day in summer, 58p per day in winter

Plus I get a 10% discount on all my current sups not included her.

So Hackup - £2.01 summer, £2.23 winter

Current - £1.55 summer, £1.77 winter.

So 50p per day ish cheaper currently, not including my discount... so significantly more... however it is a great idea and if you can work out cheaper/less supp tubs then it would be a great idea, just doesn't seem to have worked that way for us!
 
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That's quite dear, are you sure your prices were for bespoke joint suppliments as I'm only

£49.99 for 2kg from hack up and 20g a day

Or

£74.99 for 4 kg

And I've got vit and mineral included too. I'd be questioning them prices..? Everyone I know he has managed to reduce there supplement costs.

Are u working it out buying 3 seperate suppliments.?? Remember they will add all the ingredients into one this reducing what u will need to buy.
 
Daytona said:
That's quite dear, are you sure your prices were for bespoke joint suppliments as I'm only

£49.99 for 2kg from hack up and 20g a day

Or

£74.99 for 4 kg

And I've got vit and mineral included too. I'd be questioning them prices..? Everyone I know he has managed to reduce there supplement costs.

Are u working it out buying 3 seperate suppliments.?? Remember they will add all the ingredients into one this reducing what u will need to buy.
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Yup. It's a bespoke AI/Joint supp, and a bespoke Calmeing/Digestive (he says you can't mix the two because the magnesium etc are lighter than the joint supp ingreds so you can't guarantee a good mix, so I have to buy two). On the page it says £49.99 for 1kg joint or £87.99 for 2kg, and £44.99 for 1kg calmer. I emailed him to check if that included a general vit/min, as no mention of that (thinking the same as you that it would combine everything and make it easier) and he replied saying that no it didn't, and he could either provide a pre-made vit/min as well for more (possibly mixing it into one of them for ease of use, but definitely for more money), or continue to use my current vit/min mix along with the joint and calmer sups. I was surprised, had heard great things about it being cheaper, but apparently not for my boy... however he is difficult as he needs the joint supp both because he is an ex-racer and I want to prevent arthritis but he has PSSM so has muscle problems anyway, and then he is super sharp and tense, so needs the calkers, plus gets squatty tummy and ulcer-prone so needs digestive sup too... so the joint supp alone has 5 active ingreds, and the calmer has 2 plus a prep/probiotic premix... probs why it's so dear... Don't get me wrong it's a great idea, but nothing can work for everyone, and it's obviously us it doesn't! But the fact it's more expensive, not any easier, and that the joint supp relies mainly on glucosamine (and its GLHCL, not even glucosamine sulphate) just means its not that attractive to me unfortunately!
 
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glucosamine "hydrochloride" is a better delivery element sulphate , up to 30% of glucosamine sulphate is the sulphate part ie salt.

It's more commonly spoken about though as was more widely available that HCL .

So when choosing a supplements you ideally want GLHCL over sulphate. You get around 99% glucosamine instead of roughly 70% with sulphate
 
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Daytona said:
glucosamine "hydrochloride" is a better delivery element sulphate , up to 30% of glucosamine sulphate is the sulphate part ie salt.

It's more commonly spoken about though as was more widely available that HCL .

So when choosing a supplements you ideally want GLHCL over sulphate.
Click to expand...

Interesting, because when I was looking at glucosamine for myself I was told that to get glucosamine sulphate as it has a 2* uptake effectiveness score compared to GLHCL which has a 1*... although obviously I'm not sold on either, I was definitely told sulphate was far better tested and there was very little convincing evidence from studies on GLHCL. Take a look at the Arthritis Research Uk website, I know they have a comparison of the two...
 
http://igennus.com/glucosamine-debate-sulphate-or-hydrochloride/

Arthritis people recommend it only because that's what the trials were done on, that's all

http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/...n-glucosamine-sulphate-and-hydrochloride.aspx

Some for sale , aviform are a big vets supplier

http://www.aviform.co.uk/?shop=shop...opitems/joint.care/equine.products/index.aspx


To be fair though either is going to do a similar job (if it does of course) but for humans it's more sensible to choose HLC due to salt content as we are always trying to lower our salt content , not sure how relevant that would be in horses with regards to salt in there diet. You do have a higher % of pure glucosamine in HLC so if being fussy then that's the one to do for. Deliver is meant to be the same with both carriers.
 
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