Best feed to help with muscle on a TB?

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MyLovelyThoroughbred

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I have avoided soya feed as my boy was sensitive to it (and alfalfa & turmeric) after I checked him with a fantastic gut test.

He’s on Allen & Page Muscle & Focus and I’d say it’s not great for muscle building … he’s 15 and needs more. He has an awful shark fin wither (problems sustained during racing)…and I am desperate to improve his muscle, depending on the next blood test I do, which might show he is less sensitive to soya. (I hope!), which I’ve always been suspicious of as it’s not a natural horse food (which is why I like A&P as no cereals or grain) and most of it is GM… but I’m getting a bit desperate now, and a few dressage people have said the horses have bloomed on it! Saracen has been mentioned… Any help or advice appreciated!!
 
I'm in this position but with a PPID/EMS horse aged 20. Everything had been cut back to accommodate the EMS but he was losing muscle. He was having forage plus pea powder. (the FP topline powder is a mix or pea and potato protein) the pea powder didn't seem to be doing much. Also micro linseed 200g per day.

I tried alfalfa and my barefoot horse who was bouncing around the hard stony hard was reduced to a hobble. I tried soya which also reduced him to a hobble although not as bad a hobble as alfalfa.

I then tried to increase protein a bit by equi beet and Thunderbrook chaff. No hobbling from those so they are safe and he is coping well with them. I saw an article on Claire Mcleod's FB page advocating the use of a supplement. I asked what if the supplement wasn't providing protein and she sent me an article on balancers which was apparently what I needed. Top of the list of her recommendations were any Spillers balancers. I put him on the lite and lean one which is suitable for EMS although another of the spiller's range may be more suitable for your chap.

I introduced it over 5 days, had to get up to 550g per day. At around 200 he started getting very uppity. Spoke to spillers who said the balancer couldn't possibly have done that in such a small amount which did seem common sense. So I have gone back and introduced it over what will be around 3 weeks. We have got up to 350 g and still OK. I am hopeful we will get up to at least 500g. Spillers told me it would be a month on a full dose before I saw any results.
 
I had a TB that was very sensitive to some foods, Soya, alfalfa and no cereals even though he didnt have ulcers,

This is what I fed him from age 9-16 when he passed.

Coolstance copra in morning feed
Allen and page Veteran Light in evening feed.

Micronised linseed
Honeychop light and healthy.
And soy/alfa and molasses free nuts which are sold by sommervilles but Im sure you can get them elsewhere too.

He was always perfect muscle and weight.
 
SEL said:
Forage plus topline powder is a good mix of essential amino acids and pretty palatable.

Is he underweight or just lacking muscle? Obviously correct work is key but if you're after higher protein then simple systems alfalfa or sainfoin also useful
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Thank you, he isn’t underweight just lacking in muscle… Obviously he has some shoes with suspensory ligaments and SI/kissing spine, but he moves okay and does his exercise is very effectively… I have discovered from his last gut test that he isn’t actually allergic to soya so I’m going to try Saracen.
 
Barton Bounty said:
I had a TB that was very sensitive to some foods, Soya, alfalfa and no cereals even though he didnt have ulcers,

This is what I fed him from age 9-16 when he passed.

Coolstance copra in morning feed
Allen and page Veteran Light in evening feed.

Micronised linseed
Honeychop light and healthy.
And soy/alfa and molasses free nuts which are sold by sommervilles but Im sure you can get them elsewhere too.

He was always perfect muscle and weight.
Click to expand...
Thank you yes, I have always kept him on the no cereal/no sorry/no alfalfa… as he is hugely allergic to the last one. But I am going to try to get him into the soya feed as it’s my last Hope really…
 
paddy555 said:
I'm in this position but with a PPID/EMS horse aged 20. Everything had been cut back to accommodate the EMS but he was losing muscle. He was having forage plus pea powder. (the FP topline powder is a mix or pea and potato protein) the pea powder didn't seem to be doing much. Also micro linseed 200g per day.

I tried alfalfa and my barefoot horse who was bouncing around the hard stony hard was reduced to a hobble. I tried soya which also reduced him to a hobble although not as bad a hobble as alfalfa.

I then tried to increase protein a bit by equi beet and Thunderbrook chaff. No hobbling from those so they are safe and he is coping well with them. I saw an article on Claire Mcleod's FB page advocating the use of a supplement. I asked what if the supplement wasn't providing protein and she sent me an article on balancers which was apparently what I needed. Top of the list of her recommendations were any Spillers balancers. I put him on the lite and lean one which is suitable for EMS although another of the spiller's range may be more suitable for your chap.

I introduced it over 5 days, had to get up to 550g per day. At around 200 he started getting very uppity. Spoke to spillers who said the balancer couldn't possibly have done that in such a small amount which did seem common sense. So I have gone back and introduced it over what will be around 3 weeks. We have got up to 350 g and still OK. I am hopeful we will get up to at least 500g. Spillers told me it would be a month on a full dose before I saw any results.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that… What was the balance and what was the main ingredient in at intended for what? Was it amino acids to build muscle? That’s really what I need here, I think, although he is on Neighked lysine and it doesn’t seem to be making a difference.
 
Muscle And Focus is only 12% protein.
I keep my feeding very simple and base everything around soaked grass nuts. Emerald Green are 16% protein and my horses do very well on them
 
TheMule said:
Muscle And Focus is only 12% protein.
I keep my feeding very simple and base everything around soaked grass nuts. Emerald Green are 16% protein and my horses do very well on them
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Hello thank you. He has grass nuts occasionally but I think he needs like we do protein wise … chicken breast is 25% protein … that kind of percentage ..so I think the Saracen has 26% in the Essential Balancer
 
HopOnTrot said:
What “gut test” diagnoses specific allergies?
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The Test Clinic complete Equiscan test. Flagged turmeric and alfalfa and as soon as I took him off them he was a different horse.

Energy medicine like an MRI or CT scan… bloods will tell you very little.

It’s been a game changer for all the horses I’ve had tested.
 
MyLovelyThoroughbred said:
Hello thank you. He has grass nuts occasionally but I think he needs like we do protein wise … chicken breast is 25% protein … that kind of percentage ..so I think the Saracen has 26% in the Essential Balancer
Click to expand...

Horses aren’t omnivores though so they are not designed to eat small meals rich in protein (which is what balancer is)
It's better to have 1kg of grass nuts at 16% than 500g (the recommended feeding rate for a 500kg horse) of the balancer at 26%. The grass nuts will give more than double the amount of protein.
 
MyLovelyThoroughbred said:
The Test Clinic complete Equiscan test. Flagged turmeric and alfalfa and as soon as I took him off them he was a different horse.

Energy medicine like an MRI or CT scan… bloods will tell you very little.

It’s been a game changer for all the horses I’ve had tested.
Click to expand...
I’ve just looked at their website, clearly states it’s not a medical diagnosis test and no details on how it works other than “dna analysis”, I’m not a vet but allergies and ulcers don’t alter the DNA do they?
 
MyLovelyThoroughbred said:
Thank you, he isn’t underweight just lacking in muscle… Obviously he has some shoes with suspensory ligaments and SI/kissing spine, but he moves okay and does his exercise is very effectively… I have discovered from his last gut test that he isn’t actually allergic to soya so I’m going to try Saracen.
Click to expand...
I personally don't rate Saracens feeds at all. Their rice bran puts weight on well but the rest of their feeds IMO are just junk food. My yard feeds Saracens but I pay extra for my own feed. My horse has significant problems putting on weight and muscle however he is also an EPM horse and dont think that will ever change. Ive been feeding D&H Cushcare Condition and everyone has commented on how well he looks. He gets a total of 1/2 Stubbs scoop per day + herbs + rapid beet + topped up vits and mins + soaked hay/haylage. He cant have molasses and alfalfa.
 
MyLovelyThoroughbred said:
Hello thank you. He has grass nuts occasionally but I think he needs like we do protein wise … chicken breast is 25% protein … that kind of percentage ..so I think the Saracen has 26% in the Essential Balancer
Click to expand...

But 26% of the amount that balancer is fed at isn't much. At 500g it would contain 130g.

A Stubbs scoop of grass pellets would weigh about 2kg. At 16% it would give you 320g a day.

Do you have any choice in forage? I find for all the tweaking of feeds, the best thing for my tb is high nutrition hay or haylage.
 
HopOnTrot said:
I’ve just looked at their website, clearly states it’s not a medical diagnosis test and no details on how it works other than “dna analysis”, I’m not a vet but allergies and ulcers don’t alter the DNA do they?
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No, but loads of people believe in it whether it's for people or animals. One of my colleagues in a past job had her hair tested for allergies as she had gained weight. They "diagnosed" her as being allergic to whole bunch of things despite having no actual symptoms of any allergy. She blamed these "allergies" for her weight gain rather than the fact that our company (in Singapore) served mainly fried foods in the cafeteria with lashings of unhealthy palm oil.
 
Whey protein? My ‘can’t eat alfalfa or soy’ pssm mare used that and it was brilliant. Not cheap, but did the job!

Make sure enough calories are going in as well - older horses often need more grass/hay than you would think.
 
nutjob said:
No, but loads of people believe in it whether it's for people or animals. One of my colleagues in a past job had her hair tested for allergies as she had gained weight. They "diagnosed" her as being allergic to whole bunch of things despite having no actual symptoms of any allergy. She blamed these "allergies" for her weight gain rather than the fact that our company (in Singapore) served mainly fried foods in the cafeteria with lashings of unhealthy palm oil.
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I have a friend who did that hair test thing and came back with all sorts of weird allergies that she definitely didn't have...and then she wondered why I wouldnt do the test....
 
I did proper NHS allergy testing to see about taking part in a trial for hay fever treatment. It highlighted all sorts of things I was allergic to and didn't know about but not Timothy grass which was what was needed for the trial
 
if it turns out he can have a small % of soya then my TB has bloomed on Spiller Ulca power racing cubes, speedibeet and barley.

the ulca power cubes are 25kg bag so good value too

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