Best option for buying my first trailer....

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bellsinheaven

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I don't have Grandfather rights so if I towed, I would need to do the B+E test and I worry I won't pass it....is it hard? So I am looking at the 3.5T horsebox option...I have one 16.2HH mare at 650KG so would be within 3.5T. But the running costs and outlay are higher than the trailer...thoughts, please?
 
The test isn't too bad at all. The "driving on the roads" bit is just like driving a normal car, just with a lot of extra care and no back mirror. So remember all the things you needed for your first driving test! The only tricky bit (in my opinion) is the reversing, but you are allowed two corrections (shunts), so it is fine so long as you don't panic! I passed in one day - training in the morning, test in the afternoon, and I am a very average driver. I needed one shunt in the reversing manoeuvre.

If your only reason for opting for a 3.5T is because you're worried you won't pass the test, I would take the test anyway. Then you will have a genuine choice. I really don't think it's as difficult as you feel. It was expensive - I think mine cost about £500 for the training and test, but that was at a very smart local place with great facilities for practicing and powerful new trucks to take the test in. For me that was worth it but you may be able to find cheaper. Anyway once you factor in the costs of the running a lorry £500 starts looking like small change!
 
It all comes down to good instruction, and practice. And more practice. I only started towing regularly a couple of years ago, and I'm now confident to be going out and about with the trailer on my own or just with my kids.

Saying that, I'd love an excuse to buy a 3.5t lorry...
 
Widgeon said:
The test isn't too bad at all. The "driving on the roads" bit is just like driving a normal car, just with a lot of extra care and no back mirror. So remember all the things you needed for your first driving test! The only tricky bit (in my opinion) is the reversing, but you are allowed two corrections (shunts), so it is fine so long as you don't panic! I passed in one day - training in the morning, test in the afternoon, and I am a very average driver. I needed one shunt in the reversing manoeuvre.

If your only reason for opting for a 3.5T is because you're worried you won't pass the test, I would take the test anyway. Then you will have a genuine choice. I really don't think it's as difficult as you feel. It was expensive - I think mine cost about £500 for the training and test, but that was at a very smart local place with great facilities for practicing and powerful new trucks to take the test in. For me that was worth it but you may be able to find cheaper. Anyway once you factor in the costs of the running a lorry £500 starts looking like small change!
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I was looking at the 3 days training and then the test...did you ever tow before? I thought I would need loads of training for the towing and reverse and parallel park then or literally just backwards and forwards.
 
I’ve had both, I passed my b&e test around 12 years ago and never like towing. I now have a 3.5t and enjoy going out places rather than stressing about towing.
The test itself is straightforward,do a couple of days training and you’re good to go and I found the test examiner quite fun and relaxing. But if you can afford a 3.5t box I would definitely go for that x
 
I don't know about the test (too old to have needed it :-) )but seriously, once you get the hang of it towing is fine. Even reversing, once the penny drops regarding which way to steer/correct. A trailer is a seriously cheaper option than a lorry, but lacks the comforts - but a towing licence will give you that flexibility for ever.
 
Littlebear said:
I’ve had both, I passed my b&e test around 12 years ago and never like towing. I now have a 3.5t and enjoy going out places rather than stressing about towing.
The test itself is straightforward,do a couple of days training and you’re good to go and I found the test examiner quite fun and relaxing. But if you can afford a 3.5t box I would definitely go for that x
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Can I ask you how much it costs to run your 3.5T? I too am worried about the stress of towing whereas a little 3.5T seems so much easier. What do you pay for insurance, road tax, repairs etc, please?
 
bellsinheaven said:
I would need to do the B+E test and I worry I won't pass it....is it hard?
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Good instructor and no, it isn't hard. I passed mine last week after 5 hours training the day before and one hour before my test. I did practice with my own trailer before but found the reversing easy its just the speed limits I struggled to stick too. Mine costed £400 with the training.
Go for it.. honestly your be fine. If you've never towed they do more days training. I don't go out enough for a 3.5t box, so prefer the truck and trailer.
 
bellsinheaven said:
Can I ask you how much it costs to run your 3.5T? I too am worried about the stress of towing whereas a little 3.5T seems so much easier. What do you pay for insurance, road tax, repairs etc, please?
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Well the outlay was more but for towing i did fork out for an expensive towing car that was alot more to run day to day than a small car, plus the tow bar was around £300, the course and test was around £500 ish and the trailer insurance and annual service, so there are still a fair few costs to consider even though a trailer is cheaper to buy.
The lorry costs me slightly more in insurance and breakdown than the trailer but that's it other than the mot every year. I tend to use it alot more and go further because i am more comfortable with using it.
 
Littlebear said:
Well the outlay was more but for towing i did fork out for an expensive towing car that was alot more to run day to day than a small car, plus the tow bar was around £300, the course and test was around £500 ish and the trailer insurance and annual service, so there are still a fair few costs to consider even though a trailer is cheaper to buy.
The lorry costs me slightly more in insurance and breakdown than the trailer but that's it other than the mot every year. I tend to use it alot more and go further because i am more comfortable with using it.
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Thank you....any recommendations for an insurance broker? Also for brands of lorries etc and places to buy? Happy to pay out around £5K....
 
With a £5k budget you will probably be buying something that requires ongoing work to keep it on the road and may prove very expensive in the long run, unless you plan on going out a lot it may be worth looking at self drive hire for the next year which seems expensive when you first look into it but there are no other costs and it will give you the chance to either save a bit more, take your trailer test or even find someone on the yard going to the same places that is happy to give a lift.
 
I bought a secondhand (but in immaculate condition) HB403 single trailer to take my daughter’s 16hh ISH out and about. It cost £3,300-ish and after a wobbly start, I love it now! My confidence has grown every time I take it out and I’m happily reversing it. If we decide to get rid of it in the next few years, I should be able to sell it for not much less than I’d bought it for, so almost free transport in the long run! Insurance costs around £100 a year, and servicing another £150. I would love to have bought a 3.5 lorry but couldn’t justify the cost of a set up that would be as safe and hassle free as the trailer. As it’s wider than half a double trailer, there’s room to tack up under cover and our car has an enormous boot, so everything else goes in there
 
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bellsinheaven said:
I was looking at the 3 days training and then the test...did you ever tow before? I thought I would need loads of training for the towing and reverse and parallel park then or literally just backwards and forwards.
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No, I'd never towed before, but there was no parallel park in the test - just a reverse into a space. There's a nice diagram somewhere....

The measurements on this may or may not be correct (I have no idea) but the diagram does at least gives you an idea of where you need to move the car and trailer to. It's just back and left a bit.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...508690/car-and-trailer-reversing-exercise.pdf
 
bellsinheaven said:
Thank you....any recommendations for an insurance broker? Also for brands of lorries etc and places to buy? Happy to pay out around £5K....
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I think you'll struggle to get a reliable 3.5t for £5k. Triple your budget and you should find some second hand ones in fairly good condition... (my old YO was selling her 10 yr old 3.5t for 12k, but it needed a fair bit of work)
 
Personally I would take the test and get a decent trailer. Lorries are very nice but I feel you need to use it a lot to justify the extra tax/ins/servicing etc. A trailer doesn't eat much if you don't use it for a while. There isn't much to towing once you have mastered the reversing other than taking extra care with a precious cargo and you would have that with a lorry anyway. Good luck.
 
It's tricky as she's quite big but if you bought the right car and a lightweight trailer and downplated it so that you could just about get your horse on legally you can probably tow without taking a test. You can tow up to 3500kg (total of car's gross vehicle weight + trailer's maximum authorised mass) so for example you could have a car with a GVW of 2100kg (a lot of small SUVs have a weight around this) and something like a Bateson Derby which has an unladen weight of 675kg and a MAM of 1700kg. If you downplate the trailer to 1400kg you can put 725kg of horse onto it and still be legal. To downplate you just ask the manufacturer for a new plate with the required weight and replace the old one. There's usually a charge of about £50 for this.
 
annagain said:
It's tricky as she's quite big but if you bought the right car and a lightweight trailer and downplated it so that you could just about get your horse on legally you can probably tow without taking a test. You can tow up to 3500kg (total of car's gross vehicle weight + trailer's maximum authorised mass) so for example you could have a car with a GVW of 2100kg (a lot of small SUVs have a weight around this) and something like a Bateson Derby which has an unladen weight of 675kg and a MAM of 1700kg. If you downplate the trailer to 1400kg you can put 725kg of horse onto it and still be legal. To downplate you just ask the manufacturer for a new plate with the required weight and replace the old one. There's usually a charge of about £50 for this.
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I love this advice, thank you! Any ideas what kind of car has that or how I find out? x
 
I wouldn't recommend setting off towing a trailer with your pride and joy in it without having some tuition 🙄 I'm old so didn't have to take the test, but my dad taught me for a few hours and I practised myself for hours, I still turned down plenty roads/car parks etc where I had to turn round or reverse to get out!
It's not that bad, take the test😁
 
I felt I would worry too much about towing so bought a 3.5t about a year ago and love how easy it is to go out and about.

That said, my budget was quite a bit more than yours and whilst there are bargains to be had if you look hard enough my worry would be for £5k you're possibly going to end up with something that needs costly upkeep.

In terms of costs, insurance is around £300 I think, tax is £250 and to fill the tank it's around £90 (although it's been surprisingly economical so don't have to fill up too often)
 
bellsinheaven said:
I love this advice, thank you! Any ideas what kind of car has that or how I find out? x
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There's no one website that will tell you, it's a case of choosing which cars you'd be interested in then looking them up. You need to find the specific model and correct age of car you're interested in as they vary. Some good examples would be a Nissan X-Trail (most models are around 2050kg GVW); a Skoda Octavia Scout at around 2100kg; Honda CR-V(some models 2100kg). The GVW would be on the logbook of a car so you can ask the seller to check if you're not sure.

The other consideration is the towing capacity. The actual weight of horse + trailer must be less than the towing capacity. The vehicles I mentioned above would all have a capacity in the vicinity of 2000kg so you should be fine as the most you'll be able to tow will be about 1400kg anyway (due to staying within the overall 3500kg) but there are some models of the X-Trail (automatic ones usually) in particular that have very low towing capacities so double check everything.

You'll also need a fairly lightweight trailer as your mare is quite heavy. Again you'll need to research different models. I think the IW 401/403 (single horse trailer) is about 770kg unladen so by the time you've added your mare you're talking about downplating to 1450kg (in case she gains weight!). You could just manage with that as you could get an X-trail with a GVW of 2050kg and add the 1450kg to it but you wouldn't have much room for error. A lighter trailer would give you more capacity. The other option is a lighter car, Several estate cars for example have GVW around 1900kg. This would let you use the 401/403 without downplating (it's MAM is 1600kg) but you'd need to be careful with towing capacity then as cars rather than SUVs often have lower capacities.
 
annagain said:
There's no one website that will tell you, it's a case of choosing which cars you'd be interested in then looking them up. You need to find the specific model and correct age of car you're interested in as they vary. Some good examples would be a Nissan X-Trail (most models are around 2050kg GVW); a Skoda Octavia Scout at around 2100kg; Honda CR-V(some models 2100kg). The GVW would be on the logbook of a car so you can ask the seller to check if you're not sure.

The other consideration is the towing capacity. The actual weight of horse + trailer must be less than the towing capacity. The vehicles I mentioned above would all have a capacity in the vicinity of 2000kg so you should be fine as the most you'll be able to tow will be about 1400kg anyway (due to staying within the overall 3500kg) but there are some models of the X-Trail (automatic ones usually) in particular that have very low towing capacities so double check everything.

You'll also need a fairly lightweight trailer as your mare is quite heavy. Again you'll need to research different models. I think the IW 401/403 (single horse trailer) is about 770kg unladen so by the time you've added your mare you're talking about downplating to 1450kg (in case she gains weight!). You could just manage with that as you could get an X-trail with a GVW of 2050kg and add the 1450kg to it but you wouldn't have much room for error. A lighter trailer would give you more capacity. The other option is a lighter car, Several estate cars for example have GVW around 1900kg. This would let you use the 401/403 without downplating (it's MAM is 1600kg) but you'd need to be careful with towing capacity then as cars rather than SUVs often have lower capacities.
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Sorry, so can I just check, even on a B+E licence, the weight of the car, people, trailer and the horse needs to be below 3.5T in total? If a car tows 2300KG, i was thinking it could tow a max of around 2100KG, and as long as the towed weight doesn't go over 3.5T then the car weight was irrelevant? Or are you saying everything has to be under 3.5T in total?
 
bellsinheaven said:
Sorry, so can I just check, even on a B+E licence, the weight of the car, people, trailer and the horse needs to be below 3.5T in total? If a car tows 2300KG, i was thinking it could tow a max of around 2100KG, and as long as the towed weight doesn't go over 3.5T then the car weight was irrelevant? Or are you saying everything has to be under 3.5T in total?
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No this applies to a B only licence as a way to avoid taking the test.

If you have grandfather rights or you take the test, as long as the weight trailer + horse(s) is within the towing capacity of the vehicle (and doesn't exceed the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of the trailer) you can tow as much as you like. For example, I drive a Defender with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of 3150kg and towing capacity of 3500kg. My IW510 weighs 1000kg and has a MAM of 2600kg. My two horses combined are about 1400kg. The GVW of my car and MAM of the trailer is 5750kg so I couldn't tow this on just a B licence. I do have the B+E though so my only consideration is whether the actual weight of the trailer + horses (2400kg approx at most) is less than the car's towing capacity (3500kg). The weight of the people in the car is irrelevant as it's the ACTUAL towed weight that matters not what the car and its contents weighs.

For licencing purposes it's the MAXIMUM weight of the car and trailer that's important (this is when it cannot exceed 3500kg) . You may need to reduce the MAM of the trailer to get within the 3500kg e.g downplating a IW401/3 from its current 1600kg MAM to say, 1400kg to go with a car with a GVW of 2100kg. The car itself may only weigh 1400kg and the the trailer + horse may only weigh 1200kg but this is irrelevant.

The only time the horse's weight comes into is:
a. You cannot exceed the trailer's MAM so say you have an IW401/3 that's been downplated to 1300kg and a car that has a GVW of 2100kg. You can't then put 600kg of horse on it as it would exceed the MAM (770kg+600=1370kg) even if the car is capable of towing it and even if it's within the 3500kg. Of course with the above example in reality you would downplate to 1400kg not 1300kg but I just want to make the point that in this case it's purely the trailer's maximum that's important, not the overall total. This is why you need to choose your trailer carefully as your mare is heavy.
b. The ACTUAL weight of trailer + horse cannot exceed the car's towing capacity. e.g Some X-trails only have a 1300kg towing capacity. Even if the GVW of the car (2000kg) and the MAM of the trailer - same IW401/3 downplated to 1500kg - are within the 3500kg) you cannot tow more than 1300kg as the ACTUAL weight applies.
 
650kg horse being towed on a B licence ? - lets see what I can come up with .......

OCTAVIA HATCHBACK 1.8T Elegance 4X4 5dr
GVW 1,930 kg
MAX TOWING CAPACITY 1,500 kg

BATESON DERBY TRAILER
down plated from 1700 to 1500 MAM
weighs 675 empty
Leaves max trailer load of 825kg so plenty spare with a 650 horse in it

1930+1500=3430 so well under the 3500 limit for B licence towing
 
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