Best ways to get a pony to work in a nice outline?

[ridersince2002]

I ride a pony for someone, and shes normally a nutter, but now shes out 24/7 shes calmed right down and i have control (woo ) so i can start schooling her properly
Shes walking his the head down and looks beautiful, trotting and cantering without charging off or pulling my arms off, and shes bending nicely and coming back to me as soon as shes asked and not opening her mouth to evade the bit now, and also warming up long and low on the snaffle ring of a waterford gag (had lots of trouble finding the right bit in spring, and this was what we found was best, but id like to try her in a snaffle again soon).
So her owner has asked me to start asking her to work in an outline. I dont want her to start getting naughty or not enjoy her work, as im really pleased with her at the moment so i want to make sure i do it right.
Ive always been taught to play with the bit in their mouth and lower my hands, but i was wondering if theres any other ways anyone can suggest? I know people have their own ways of doing things, but wasnt sure if there are other ways of doing this.

I know theres no quick miracle way, but i really want to make sure i do it right so please dont critisize me for asking

 

[Javabb94]

not sure if this is what you mean but,

imagine the head of the horse as the point of a "v" and your hands the other two points.

widen the hands but dont drop them so thw head is the point of the "v" and your hands the two wide ends.

Gently tweak/vibrate the bit in your hands until the head is in and as a reward stop the vibrating, and carry on this but at the same time use impulsion not to quicken but to get his hocks underneath him

works with my horse brilliantly!

 

[AnnieM&M]

i've always been taught to push through my legs into the hand, once you feel they're working from behind keep a secure outside rein and small short squeezes with the inside rein, relax as soon as they're in outline (not dropping the reins but just leaving the mouth so they learn this is the most comfortable place for them). Also when ever im riding younger/less experienced horses they find it easier on a longer lower rein. (they're then looser over their back and it should evenly build their muscles so you can start askin for a more uphill contact)
Hope this helps, good luck x

 

[trina1982]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing and it will come.

I really wouldn't lower the hands and fiddle. Working in an outline begins in their back. If they're through in their back the head is naturally 'correct'. Just ensure you're balanced and correct, that will then give her the opportunity to offer her back up. You'll know when she does, she'll feel totally different. Don't force it, and give plenty of breaks. And perhaps find an instructor who can help you with schooling exercises and check your position. Don't forget that to 'come round' your horse will need to engage her abs, and that is hard work for her to start with. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.

Good luck! I'm sure they'll be plenty more advice given.

Trina x

 

[JanetGeorge]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing and it will come.

I really wouldn't lower the hands and fiddle. Working in an outline begins in their back. If they're through in their back the head is naturally 'correct'. Just ensure you're balanced and correct, that will then give her the opportunity to offer her back up. You'll know when she does, she'll feel totally different. Don't force it, and give plenty of breaks. And perhaps find an instructor who can help you with schooling exercises and check your position. Don't forget that to 'come round' your horse will need to engage her abs, and that is hard work for her to start with. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.

Good luck! I'm sure they'll be plenty more advice given.

But none better than the above!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing and it will come.

I really wouldn't lower the hands and fiddle. Working in an outline begins in their back. If they're through in their back the head is naturally 'correct'. Just ensure you're balanced and correct, that will then give her the opportunity to offer her back up. You'll know when she does, she'll feel totally different. Don't force it, and give plenty of breaks. And perhaps find an instructor who can help you with schooling exercises and check your position. Don't forget that to 'come round' your horse will need to engage her abs, and that is hard work for her to start with. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.

Good luck! I'm sure they'll be plenty more advice given.

Trina x

But this is excellent advice.
I do wish 'instructors' wouldn't tell people to mess about with their hands. All that can do is give a 'false outline'.

 

[trina1982]

I'm glad you agree JanetGeorge - you always seem to talk a lot of sense. The photo you have of that young grey working through well always sticks in my mind whenever anyone posts about outlines

Trina x

 

[PennyJ]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing and it will come.

I really wouldn't lower the hands and fiddle. Working in an outline begins in their back. If they're through in their back the head is naturally 'correct'. Just ensure you're balanced and correct, that will then give her the opportunity to offer her back up. You'll know when she does, she'll feel totally different. Don't force it, and give plenty of breaks. And perhaps find an instructor who can help you with schooling exercises and check your position. Don't forget that to 'come round' your horse will need to engage her abs, and that is hard work for her to start with. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.

Good luck! I'm sure they'll be plenty more advice given.

Trina x

This "you'll know" business - well its so true! I'm riding my daughter's pony at the moment, she's the one who does all the "finesse" stuff, I am just keeping his fitness levels up until she breaks up next week. I wondered what the hell was going on the first time he did it whilst we were trotting, then I just enjoyed it once I realised what was going on... It's quite a feeling!

 

[JanetGeorge]

The photo you have of that young grey working through well always sticks in my mind whenever anyone posts about outlines

You mean this one??

It's a nice one - demonstrates so clearly that being 'on the bit' or 'in an outline' has very little to do with the rider's hands!

 

[Paladine]

You'll want to start with active, balanced working gaits and have a steady and accepting feel of the bit with straight lines from elbow to bit.

Lowering the hands is an anchor effect that will certainly place a horse on the forehand.

Wiggling the bit is riding the front end and not the back, and there is no way a horse can be steady on the bit when the bit itself is moving constantly. There is a fine line between little half halts to soften a locked jaw, and "see-sawing" and it's an easy one to cross if one gets desperate, so I would just concentrate on steady hands.

The simplest way to ride a horse in an outline, so to speak, is to imagine you and your horse are riding down a hallway with doors to the front and back and both sides. You want energy from behind, but not rushing up front. That's the front and back off your hall way, found through working gaits. Now, the sides are trickier. You don't want the horse too close to one leg or another, by bulging a hip or shoulder in or out on a circle, so you want to keep those "doors" where the balance is escaping closed.

Once your horse will maintain working gaits and steady contact, and is equally between your two legs and two reins, without leaning or bulging anywhere, there is no reason why she shouldn't come nicely round.

The hard part is developing the timing and feel.

 

[trina1982]

You mean this one??

It's a nice one - demonstrates so clearly that being 'on the bit' or 'in an outline' has very little to do with the rider's hands!

Yes, that's the one! To my eye it looks very 'correct'.

Tracking up
Hocks under
Self-carriage
Lifted through the back and wither
Poll highest point
Slightly in front of vertical
Going uphill
Appears soft and relaxed (though obviously working)

It (to me anyway) looks like it will keep the horse sound, and build up muscle in all the right places. And nothing has been forced.

Lovely

Trina x

 

[Munchkin]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing and it will come.

I really wouldn't lower the hands and fiddle. Working in an outline begins in their back. If they're through in their back the head is naturally 'correct'. Just ensure you're balanced and correct, that will then give her the opportunity to offer her back up. You'll know when she does, she'll feel totally different. Don't force it, and give plenty of breaks. And perhaps find an instructor who can help you with schooling exercises and check your position. Don't forget that to 'come round' your horse will need to engage her abs, and that is hard work for her to start with. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.

Good luck! I'm sure they'll be plenty more advice given.

Trina x

Thank goodness for you, Trina! All this "irritate its mouth until it gives up and tucks its nose in" makes me want to scream.

 

[Toast]

Thank goodness for you, Trina! All this "irritate its mouth until it gives up and tucks its nose in" makes me want to scream.

you forgot 'and lock your hands so it keeps its head on its chest'

Drives me nuts too
x

 

[YorksG]

Echo Munchmincepies. We were fortunate enough to steward for our old RI in the summer of 2009, this rather wonderful old Gent (now in his 80's) was deploring the 'modern' habit of sawing and messing with a horses mouth, and the lack of riding. He taught people to ride from their legs and seat, the hands were there to fine tune, not to 'create' a false outline. As a side issue he was saying that he would find it impossible to teach these days as his methods of riding without irons, without reins etc were no longer allowable under the insurance policies for RS's. Such a shame IMO

 

[Kat]

The first think to do is to forget about "getting the pony into an outline" you need to ride the pony in connection.

The head is the last piece of the puzzle in "the outline", so forget about where it is and work on everything else.

The first thing is to make sure the pony is working actively from behind, and tracking up well, so work lots of transitions, transtitions within the pace, half halts, changes of bend etc to get the hind leg really active. But don't let all the energy go out the front, you aren't kicking on for "faster" you are aiming for the same speed and rhythm with more "power". So contain the energy by engaging your core muscles and controlling the rhythm through your seat whilst doing half halts to stop the pony rushing.

Keep a nice steady contact, especially on the outside rein, don't fiddle, and eventually when the horse is working from behind, he'll lift his back and drop his head, but you shouldn't be pulling his head into place. There is nothing worse than a horse that tucks his head in without engaging his quarters.

Widening your hand a little can help, but do not get sucked into a low wide fixed hand - that just pulls the head into place.

I'd also make the change back to a snaffle sooner rather than later, the contact you get with a dutch gag isn't very "true" because of the action. Try a french link or lozenge snaffle.

 

[JanetGeorge]

It (to me anyway) looks like it will keep the horse sound, and build up muscle in all the right places. And nothing has been forced.

Lovely

Trina x

Thank you! I confess I'm very proud of this little chap - he's everything a GOOD RID should be (except big enough for my husband!)

And he's been backed 10 months! If I only had time for a 'me' horse, he would bve it. Sadly I don't, so some VERY lucky person is going to get a very nice horse indeed (don't knock me down in the rush!)

 

[Munchkin]

JG - I do wish you bred smaller beasties (for the vertically challenged such as myself) - I never tire of looking at pics of your beautifully started babies.

 

[Jenni_]

iv always ben taught the 3 stages in a horse working correctly are;

Forward
Straight
Relaxed

i find with young horses if you have nice still light hands, low hands can imitate side reins and gradually bring them up.

working on circles and keeping the bend and keeping them straight through the track helps also

 

[ridersince2002]

Ah thank you every one Your all so helpful on here

We do alot of circle work, and she used to swing her bum out of the circle, but shes stoped doing that now and has really started working alot better. Shes got lovely movement, but has only started showing it properly when being ridden, which seems to me like shes working properly/much better than before

Will be trying some of your suggestions on sunday when i next ride her
Thanks alot x

 

[trina1982]

Thank goodness for you, Trina! All this "irritate its mouth until it gives up and tucks its nose in" makes me want to scream.

Wasn't always like that though i have to confess! I have ridden many ponies as a kid in false outlines whilst thinking 'how pretty'. Sadly, like most people, i was only doing what i was taught (and looks like is still being taught ).

It was my own back that led me down the path of discovering how to ride correctly. I have a tendency to hollow (am one of those stupidly flexible people ). I ended up getting backache when i picked up riding again after a break and just wasn't enjoying it. I felt heavy, the horse felt heavy, and it all felt wrong. I happened upon Mary Wanless in a magazine, she made a huge amount of sense. I then contacted my local RWYM instructor and learnt so much from her in just one session. An instructor can really make or break a rider, and i have learnt so much in the years since. I still find it slightly mind blowing how you can have such a profound effect on the horse by changing what appears to be very little in your own posture. By riding more from my core and in neutral spine i now have no back ache at all, and i would hope the horse i was riding would feel the same.

Now i've finished having babies i'm hoping to really get back into it. I had a lesson a few weeks back and, not surprisingly, my core is shot to bits and needs some work

OP - have fun on sunday, let us know how it goes over the next few weeks If you post some pics, people will be able to tell you if you are heading in the right direction and give advice, you can tell a lot from a photo (and i like looking at pictures ).

Trina x

 

[Zirach]

Trina1982, that makes allot of sense. I have to say that I had been taught the 'hanging on the mouth' low hands method in the past and had been told in the show ring by the judge to stop fiddling - how embarassing!

I have recently purchased a new horse, bit more forward going and sensitive to our last more forgiving boy, I have a new instructress and like the OP and trying very hard to get my girl going nicely.

I also have lower back issues and have a tendancy to hollow my back, which I am sure is linked to the way I ride.

I have been trying to get my girl going without being as heavy on my hands but find that she tends to rather tank off, and lose rhythm. She is ridden in a hanging cheek snaffle (which seemed to work better than her previous lozange type snaffle and she does not seem to hang on the bit, she seems to pull from her lower neck (if you know what I mean) . Any advice on this?

Sorry OP for hijacking, but the comments you had received were very helpful to me also.

 

[trina1982]

Will pm you zirach