Best weight gain feeds for a veteran

[luci_king]

I’ve had my 13.3 new forest gelding for 10 years, he is now 22 (still in work) and for the past 5 or so years every winter he just drops weight and nothing I feed him seems to help.

He has his teeth done every year and has just recently had them done again. He also has a worm count done every 3 months and always comes back with no need to worm.

I’ve tried ready mash combined with spillers conditioning mix and hifi veteran - no matter how many feeds or how big the feed he just didn’t put on weight.

This year I’m trying him on 1/2 scoop of Allen and page veteran vitality, 1&1/2 scoop of dodsen and horrell build up mix, alpha A oil chop and linseed.

He’s not prone to laminitis nor has ever had it and high energy feeds don’t make him fizzy - so any suggestions would be extremely grateful!

 

[PapaverFollis]

Saracens Veteran Pencils (or the mix) are worth a try. I used to work at a feed merchants and most customers that tried them continued to use them plus gave enthusiastic feedback.

 

[ester]

copra?
have you tested him for cushings?
and tapeworm?

 

[AdorableAlice]

VV, equi jewel and linseed.

 

[luci_king]

He has a salvia tape worm test sent off with the egg counts and all comes back fine.

I’ve never had him tested for Cushing’s as he doesn’t have any of the other symptoms. His coat is normal thickness in the winter months before clipping and fine during the summer months, he doesn’t excessively drink nor excessively go to toilet etc.

 

[Derfette26]

I've recently started feeding my 26 year old arab who dropped weight this summer for the first time, Baileys No 1 Cereal Meal. It has taken a couple of bags, but I am now seeing a real difference and he's keeping his weight on alot better!

 

[Crazydancer]

Jumping on this thread too as I came in to post a very similar question! My PBA has dropped weight for the first time, at 25. He's had some periods of unlevelness, and the vet today did see a difference in him even from a few months ago, and we think he may have had low-grade discomfort which wouldn't have helped. He is subdued. She's taken a blood test for Cushings (has tested negative previously) and left some bute to try and make him a bit more comfortable.
He's on AlphaA, pony nuts, linseed oil and mulit vit/mineral supplement plus Glucosamine.
Vet suggested moving to a balancer rather than the vit/mins supplement.
I was thinking of moving him to something like a mash (fast fibre?) plus some veteran mix/nuts etc.

AdorableAlice - what is 'VV'? I'll look at Equi Jewel, also had some recommendations for Copra, Allen & Page seem well liked and recommended, also was at a previous yard where the owner swore by Saracen feeds (and my boy did look good on that)
Any other recommendations appreciated. (And sorry for the thread hi-jack!!)

 

[ester]

VV will be veteran vitality I think

If he isn't comfortable obviously try the bute but perhaps also consider supplementing with boswellia, I've had my oldie on it for the last couple of years and it might be enough to help longer term.

I would switch the linseed oil out for micronised if you can.

Fast fibre is very low in energy so I would not use it for something struggling to keep weight on (it is also too high in selenium to properly use as a hay replacer) there are other better soaked feeds for that. And most veteran mixes tend to be high oil or well laced with molasses- the higher oil is fine but you need to look carefully at the ingredients.

which vit/mins supplement. TBH I see no benefit of most balancers over a good vit/min supplement, they usually just have extra rubbish .

 

[Beausmate]

He has a salvia tape worm test sent off with the egg counts and all comes back fine.

I’ve never had him tested for Cushing’s as he doesn’t have any of the other symptoms. His coat is normal thickness in the winter months before clipping and fine during the summer months, he doesn’t excessively drink nor excessively go to toilet etc.

The only sign anything was up with my old TB, was weight loss. He is 24 and tested positive for PPID last year. He is doing well on 1 prascend daily, although his ACTH levels were up to 103 this month. Re-test due in December to see if he goes back to normal after the seasonal rise.

My big TB, also 24, also tested positive, but at a lower level. He has a range of symptoms, such as weight loss, multiple hoof abscesses, skin problems, random colds and eye problems and allergies. Much better on one prascend daily - no abscesses for as long as he's been on the tablets, no colds, fewer skin and eye problems and no headshaking this summer.

So you can't always tell by looking at them. If you're quick, you might still get the free lab test.

 

[Crazydancer]

VV will be veteran vitality I think

If he isn't comfortable obviously try the bute but perhaps also consider supplementing with boswellia, I've had my oldie on it for the last couple of years and it might be enough to help longer term.

I would switch the linseed oil out for micronised if you can.

Fast fibre is very low in energy so I would not use it for something struggling to keep weight on (it is also too high in selenium to properly use as a hay replacer) there are other better soaked feeds for that. And most veteran mixes tend to be high oil or well laced with molasses- the higher oil is fine but you need to look carefully at the ingredients.

which vit/mins supplement. TBH I see no benefit of most balancers over a good vit/min supplement, they usually just have extra rubbish .

Thanks Ester. I actually swapped to the oil from micronised following advice from a lady who ran a riding school/rehab place who had a lot of very fit oldies, she said it was utilised better in oil form for in the oldies - I have no idea if that is true, I took it on face value without checking. I'd be interested to find out, do you have any info on the differences?
Copra seems to be an alternative to linseed, so have now discounted that.
I seem to have come back to A&P VV or Saracen Veteran cubes. The Saracen feed can be soaked to a mash and contains everything needed without an additional balancer. I've yet to check the VV but think that will be easier to source - Saracen seems to be by order only.
Oh and I will check Boswellia as well, thanks for that!

 

[ester]

copra isn't an alternative where did that come from? I know plenty of people who feed both, I just wouldn't introduce both at the same time as it takes a bit of adjustment in the gut if you are going from no oil to a high oil diet.

Frankly the ingredients in the saracens are pretty awful IMO. I wouldn't want to feed any of the first four ingredients, then it gets a bit better, then they add garlic :rolleyes3:. I guess that is why I started feeding straights though!

Wheatfeed
Oatfeed
Wheat
Molasses
Full Fat Soya
Soya Extract
Dried Sugar Beet Pulp
Full Fat Linseed Meal
Calcium Carbonate
Dicalcium Phosphate
Vitamins & Minerals
Sodium Chloride
Herbal Mint Garlic Mix

Re. the linseed essentially it is partly because you get the whole product not just the oil part. If I can find some info on it I shall add it.

 

[bja_belle]

I found last winter that my old boy, who didn't cope as well as I liked his first winter living out (retired 16.3 7/8th TB), did really well on a 10% cool cooked cube mix + 1/2 a scoop of steam cooked flaked barley plus sugar beet/linseed oil (plus ad-lib haylage). Barley is an old fashioned feed, but may be worth a try if your horse is OK with cereals. I had tried him the 1st winter living out on extruded soya, but when I went to put him back on that last winter when he needed a bit extra, he refused his feeds, so then tried the barley, and he looked super by the time we got to spring.

 

[Crazydancer]

copra isn't an alternative where did that come from? I know plenty of people who feed both, I just wouldn't introduce both at the same time as it takes a bit of adjustment in the gut if you are going from no oil to a high oil diet.

Frankly the ingredients in the saracens are pretty awful IMO. I wouldn't want to feed any of the first four ingredients, then it gets a bit better, then they add garlic :rolleyes3:. I guess that is why I started feeding straights though!

Wheatfeed
Oatfeed
Wheat
Molasses
Full Fat Soya
Soya Extract
Dried Sugar Beet Pulp
Full Fat Linseed Meal
Calcium Carbonate
Dicalcium Phosphate
Vitamins & Minerals
Sodium Chloride
Herbal Mint Garlic Mix

Re. the linseed essentially it is partly because you get the whole product not just the oil part. If I can find some info on it I shall add it.

Thanks ester, bear in mind my knowledge on feed is very basic as I've never had to worry too much - my lad has always looked good on basic grass/hay with token feeds along the way. He doesn't react to cereals, sugar been laminitic or any other issues.
Looking at Copra it seemed a high oil feedstuff fed in smallish quantities, so that's why I said it was similar to Linseed..... based purely on the info I could find on various discussion threads on here and nothing more scientific than that!
Saracen - I know my boy did really well on that 2 winters ago, and the lady who ran the yard seemed clued up but again, I didn't study it in any great depth. Just what I could see in his weight and his coat. As I obviously have gaps in my knowledge here, what is the issue with wheat/oats? I can't believe I've had my horse 25 years and only now have to start studying this stuff...... :/ it's a minefield!!!! Everyone you speak to has a different recommendation or opinion, but that's horses for you I guess..... oh and thanks for the linseed info, that is very interesting. I am going back to the micronised in that case.

 

[ester]

It isn't wheat or oats, it is wheatfeed and oatfeed, it is basically what is left after they are processed.

I'm all for feeding actual oats/grains

And yes there are a lot of opinions and in the end you just have decide what you are happy with with what ever information you have, but at least there is a lot more info about these days. I was amused to read a local fb group thread on feeding something that struggled to maintain and about 10 of the first 15 comments mentioned linseed then the OP said oh, it looks like VV is coming out on top.... they must have been reading a different thread to me.

I was brought up feeding sugarbeet, bran and pony nuts to most things, with added barley if required.
When I first got mine they were on hifi, pony nuts and sugar beet.
It took a while for mine to accept that he doesn't get molasses anymore which tied in with having to take him barefoot (he was lame in shoes) he had fastfibre for a bit as a mineral carrier when not in work but now what works best for us is grass chaff (still can't find a rival to agrobs on that one!), linseed, vit + min supplement. Then when required added speedibeet and/or oats. I know what is going in then and it keeps him in fair nick and importantly for us his hooves are amazing!

(the linseed thing is mostly a protein/amino acid thing which you won't get from the oil... I prefer to feed charnwoods as they are the only company that can infra red rather than cook.. but that is a whole other discussion!)

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Allen & Page Veteran Vitality is very good, its a very small type of nut that needs soaking in hot or cold water (prefer to give a warm feed myself). Its got a lot of vitamins/minerals which are balanced and also is a good source of linseed which makes my mares coat shine like you wouldn't believe. Its high in fibre and low in starch. Its also extremely palatable, I started it on recommendation from a friend and my horse absolutely loves it as does the other horses whose owners I have recommended it to. Its also got pre and probiotic in it. My horse absolutely loves it fed as a sloppy feed. Especially good this time of year for horses that don't drink much as it rehydrates and gets that water in them. Only disadvantage is that if a feeds already made up soaked the night before for the next morning it can go rancid, so I make it up with water and then squeeze all the water out of it so its drier and mix with dry chaff and supplements, and leave a bottle in the feed bin for staff to mix in the morning to stop it going rancid in the summer.

 

[Crazydancer]

Ester, thanks very much for that, it all makes sense. When I had my horse it was pre-internet, so the only advice you got was from people you knew. Mine was brought up on pasture mix in the summer, (and I recall that being sticky with molasses!!) and adding sugar beet and chaff in the winter.
We had some small test packs of VV at the yard, I tried him and he licked the bowl clean My local feed place had it in stock, so I have bought a bag, and they can get micronised linseed in (from Charnwood, where I got mine before) and it's cheaper than going direct! So I have a bag on order.

So new feed will be A&P Veteran Vitality soaked to a mash, with a small scoop of AlphaA (may replace this when the bag runs out, but not sure with what yet) plus micronised linseed and a glucosimine supplement (from the vet so I have to assume it's a decent grade/quality)
I will report back to let you know if we see any changes.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations and to luci_king who started the thread - sorry again for the hi-jack but hope this has been useful for you and your boy too - let us know how you are getting on, your feed choice looks pretty similar to the one I've ended up with. Let's compare notes in a month!!

 

[WindyWitch]

I fed my senior TB a cool and condition nut but wasnt happy with his outline and he was starting to lose condition coming into winter. For the past 3 weeks I have had him on Bluegrass Resolve a low starch nut and the difference can be seen already. Highly recommended

 

[3Beasties]

My 22 year old TB seems to be putting on weight with 16 plus. I've also just added Keyflow plus which was described to me as 'calories in a bag' and only needs feeding in small amounts - not been on it long enough to know if it's any good though!

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Having success with micronised linseed, alfa A lite and a vit/min supplement

 

[Crazydancer]

Just a quick update on my new feed regime of A&P Veteran Vitality fed with a scoop of AlphaA and micronised linseed - we are 3 weeks on and he has put weight on, his coat has a lovely sheen and he has picked up in himself (but the bute has a lot to do with that!) We've now gone back to 1 feed a day and he looks much more his usual self. Just need to wait for the dental appointment and physio to tick those boxes.

 

[Crazydancer]

Just a quick update on my new feed regime of A&P Veteran Vitality fed with a scoop of AlphaA and micronised linseed - we are 3 weeks on and he has put weight on, his coat has a lovely sheen and he has picked up in himself (but the bute has a lot to do with that!) We've now gone back to 1 feed a day and he looks much more his usual self. Just need to wait for the dental appointment and physio to tick thse boxes.

 

[MagicMelon]

I honestly think its just trial and error, as with anything what works for one horse wont for another. I was going to recommend Readymash Extra and their Senior Support as it helps my veteran who struggles with weight but you've already said it doesnt work for yours! Whatever you choose feed-wise, Id keep using the linseed and maybe even add some extra veg oil as well for even more calories. What about a high spec vit & min supplement (with B vits)? Might give him a bit of a boost.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Just a quick update on my new feed regime of A&P Veteran Vitality fed with a scoop of AlphaA and micronised linseed - we are 3 weeks on and he has put weight on, his coat has a lovely sheen and he has picked up in himself (but the bute has a lot to do with that!) We've now gone back to 1 feed a day and he looks much more his usual self. Just need to wait for the dental appointment and physio to tick thse boxes.

You can't go wrong with the A&P VV, its done my horse wonders with weight gain and coat shine as I mentioned before and its nice to feed hot (well warm!)