BEVA standing up against use of Bute being allowed in competition hors

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I honestly can't remember who it was, I have no idea why you think I am referring soley to you. Someone made a comment on another thread about how bute given 24hrs before the start of a comp was a real problem for endurance horses because of the distances they do, and that is why it is different from other examples given on the thread, which were of eventers/sjers etc. It used to be commonplace to give an eventer bute after the XC.

Likewise, I also think that a hard days hunting must be at least as stressful as endurance on a horse, especially if there are big fences and deep plough involved and hunt horses have been buted up since the invention of bute - loads of horses hunt on bute, catastrophic breakdown is not terribly common.

I'm not actually asking 'you' or anyone else on here to provide evidence, I'm saying that it seems pretty far-fetched to say the problem is only in things like endurance (given that it can't be in SJ or BEVA would have lobbied for a change when BSJA first started allowing bute) when other disciplines in which bute is commonplace such as hunting must be at least as stressful on the horse as endurance, and they don't have a high rate of catastrophic breakdown.

All I am trying to do is point out why I think there is more to this than simply 'horse welfare/cruelty' issues which the BEVA are marching under the banner of - if that were true then why do their members routinely prescribe bute to people to allow them to hunt for example?

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I thought you were referring to me as your post was aimed at me and my comments on endurance
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The hunting comparison is not valid, for the following reasons: hunting is not a competition, there is not the will to win involved; hunters do not go 100 miles in a single days hunt; although hunting involves fast work, this is combined with slow work and hanging around, there are not the same speeds maintained for hours on end as in top level endurance. It is very hard to envisage what riding 100 miles at a good speed is like unless you have done it. The demands on a horse in a 160k endurance race are not comparable to a days hunting. And I have done both.
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But in endurance you do not jump 6ft hedges with the associated strain on legs during takeoff and landing. I think it really depends what country you hunt as some are not big hedge country. You also don't go through deep plough at speed with the associated strain on legs.

You weren't the only person on these threads who was talking about endurance, hence it was not aimed personally at you.
 
I would agree with everything that Arabelle has said.

I commented on endurance on the other thread, but I didn't say my concerns were because of the distances they do (I'm not wanting to get into a 'our sport is tougher than your sport' argument
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), I said it was because of the level of detail as to the actual current physical condition of the horse that needs to be seen at the vet checks. It's rare that a horse will be hopping lame at a vet check, it's far more likely that a horse will be spun on a slight unlevelness/stiffness. Bute or one of the other anti inflammatories that are now permitted would 'take the edge off' something that would otherwise make that horse unfit to continue, and that horse then has to go out and do several hours more hard riding, which could mean it crashes and burns later on. Likewise a slight stiffness that hasn't even got as far as a lameness can put a horse's pulse rate up a handful of beats if it's not entirely comfortable in its own skin - ergo if you give the horse something to make it more comfortable its pulse will come down.

Bute can start to act within the hour, too. As there is no test to ascertain when a drug was given, there is nothing to stop someone giving half a sachet to a horse during a competition to help with later vet checks.

The vet checks are our judging criteria - completing the distance whilst keeping a horse in a decent physical condition so that it is fit to continue throughout the competition with a pulse that will drop to near the resting rate within a few minutes of coming in to the vetgate is the entire point of endurance. The equivalent would be having a dressage judge trying to mark a test whilst wearing such thick smoky dark glasses that they can no longer see the subtle differences in the movements, they can only see when the test goes so wrong that you leave the arena.
 
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I have to say that before this FEI decision was brought to light, I NEVER knew that BSJA allowed bute! I would never have imagined that. In Sweden (where I spent most of my competing days so far) there is a zero-tolerance level.

I can't find anything about the level of Bute allowed in the BSJA rules though - can anyone enlighten me?

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I too look forward to reading it

If it were as simple as easing a little discomfort or stiffness without possibility of causing more damage then I for one would be all for it. My reasons being so many horses love their jobs and I regularly see unlevel horses at shows surely if we could help them just enough it would be better that way??

I know how these horses feel I suffer from Rheumatoid Arthritis and have to take very strong pain relief just to get out of bed never mind ride. I would hate to think that I had to stop riding because I wasn't allowed to take my pain relief, therefore ending my active life (isn't it the same for some horses??)

My limited experience with bute is that 1 sachet a day is not enough to mask moderate lameness
 
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