Beware all liveries - horse killed while in livery

[If only]

Last year we put our horse in full livery at a professional show jumping yard while we were moving house. It was there for a couple of months when one night it got out from its stable by allegedly rubbing its neck against the Monarch sliding door and somehow released the mechanism (I can't quite believe this). It then got out of the barn in which in which the stables were housed. At some point during the night while he was wandering around unsupervised (it turns out he hadn't been checked for 14 hrs by the time they found him the next morning) he impailed himself on a latch of an open gate outside of the barn doors. ( so out of the stable, out of the barn doors which had been left open and then through another gate that had been left open).
Five days later my horse had to be put down due to the lung being penetrated which was heartbreaking.
Neither the yard owner or the show jumper who was supposedly caring for my horse took any responsibilty and indeed we were told that it is just ' one of those things that happen.' (I have my own private yard and none of my horses have ever escaped).
We took them to court and lost the case. The message to you all from the judge is that a livery owner is not responsible for a horse escaping whilst in their care and that it is quite acceptable that a horse can rub its neck on a stable door thereby opening it (if you have a monarch stabling system I would be interested to hear if you have experienced this - otherwise beware!)

 

[JFTDWS]

Whilst you have my sympathies about your horse, I do know of several horses who could escape from Monarch sliding doors on a yard I was stabled on previously. I used to have to tie one of mine shut as my highland knew how to release it. Sadly, with horses, accidents do happen

 

[Wagtail]

Really sorry to hear about your horse. But yes, I have had several open Monach stable doors. Thankfully none came to any harm as outer doors are always bolted.

 

[If only]

Yes. It turns out horses were often escaping but although they had put a chain on some of the stallion doors they hadn't with mine. So they knew there was a problem. A simple quick release latch or kick bolt would have prevented this from happening.
Overall a rubbish design for what should be a secure system! I'm glad I have traditional doors on my yard and would never trust a monarch stable system door now.

 

[Pedantic]

yep accidents do happen, so I can "maybe" understand the verdict, however 14 hours unchecked FFS, that is piss poor care in my view if it's supposed to be full livery

 

[snopuma]

Sorry for your loss, but your thread comes across as a bit odd, I never heard of anyone referring to their beloved animal as 'it'. 'It's' tend to be material/financial referral but he/she/they are emotional referral, are you sad at the loss of your horse or sad that you lost the money and the court case if its the latter I have just run out of sympathy for you.

 

[DipseyDeb]

yep accidents do happen, so I can "maybe" understand the verdict, however 14 hours unchecked FFS, that is piss poor care in my view if it's supposed to be full livery

This was my first thought, my horse has escaped before, but the yard he's on has an alarm system, any 'escapee' will set off the sensors (sp) and be captured on CCTV, the YO will receive a phone call from the security company so any crisis is easily averted! Your story is extremely sad, and yes horses and accidents do go hand in hand, but if I had a horse stabled on a supposedly top yard, I would expect more.

 

[Keen]

Sorry for your loss, but your thread comes across as a bit odd, I never heard of anyone referring to their beloved animal as 'it'. 'It's' tend to be material/financial referral but he/she/they are emotional referral, are you sad at the loss of your horse or sad that you lost the money and the court case if its the latter I have just run out of sympathy for you.

Actually, calling a horse 'it' is good grammar.

 

[CanadianGirl]

The whole story is questionable in my mind because you are referring to your horse as "it".

Kind of seems like someone with an axe to grind against Monarch doors.

 

[Clodagh]

So if you call your horse it its OK for it to be neglected and die!? amazing.

 

[stevieg]

Do people join a forum just to cause trouble? Wouldnt surprise me

 

[mjcssjw2]

stevie g I wonder about that as well

 

[Oberon]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

That is all I can say.

 

[Reindeer Rider]

Have you heard of Godwins Rule?

 

[madmav]

This was my first thought, my horse has escaped before, but the yard he's on has an alarm system, any 'escapee' will set off the sensors (sp) and be captured on CCTV, the YO will receive a phone call from the security company so any crisis is easily averted! Your story is extremely sad, and yes horses and accidents do go hand in hand, but if I had a horse stabled on a supposedly top yard, I would expect more.

That sounds amazing security. Very sensible, not heard of anything so extensive before. Is it a top-notch (expensive!) yard?

 

[stevieg]

Has anybody mentioned Hitler yet?

 

[Moomin1]

So if you call your horse it its OK for it to be neglected and die!? amazing.

NEGLECT?!! Seriously?!!

Somehow a horse not being checked overnight for 14 hrs is hardly neglect!! Plenty of people put their horses to bed at 6pm and aren't back until 9-10 in the morning - which isn't far off!

Yes if I was paying for full livery I would expect more surveillance than a DIY perhaps, but that is a far cry from being 'neglect'.

 

[mini-eventer]

Sorry to hear about your loss I would be devistated. It does sound like an unfortunate accident. My full livery yard starts in the morning at 7 am and finishes the horses at 5pm so they are left overnight for 14 hours... I do not think they are negligent in this?? owners can come up after 6 if they wish that is just the time the staff work.

Was you aware your horse could open the door? If not then I guess the staff didnt realise either...

 

[CanadianGirl]

So if you call your horse it its OK for it to be neglected and die!? amazing.

I don't see that anyone has said that anywhere.

Do you call your horse "it"?

 

[wellsat]

I have a sliding door, concerned now, don't want to find my boy ambling about in the rapeseed in the morning

 

[Miss L Toe]

So the judge ruled that the yard had no duty of care to your horse? What did your solicitor go to court on?

 

[Jesstickle]

I call my horses it! Doesn't mean I don't care about them. What an odd accusation

OP, I'm very sorry about your loss, it must be heartbreaking. It does sound to me like a terrible accident though rather than neglect or incompetence. Horses are horses unfortunately and get themselves into all sorts of scrapes

 

[matt_m]

Sorry for your loss, but your thread comes across as a bit odd, I never heard of anyone referring to their beloved animal as 'it'. 'It's' tend to be material/financial referral but he/she/they are emotional referral, are you sad at the loss of your horse or sad that you lost the money and the court case if its the latter I have just run out of sympathy for you.

Slight over reaction I think for such a trivial thing that you have taken the time to observe and point out so efficiently, time that could be spent offering your sympathies for somebody that has gone through a rather emotional and no doubt stressful time with the loss of their horse it would seem...

It's not for us to judge whether the post is true or not (if we did that on every topic in the forum then what would be the point of discussing anything?) I think it's a case of say something useful or nothing at all.


If they knew there was an issue of horses escaping somewhat regularly from their stables then it is their responsibility to implement extra measures to ensure horses remain contained. If they didn't do that then I can't help but feel they should have been some way responsible, although not fully.

 

['S'teamed]

.......

 

[Moomin1]

Slight over reaction I think for such a trivial thing that you have taken the time to observe and point out so efficiently, time that could be spent offering your sympathies for somebody that has gone through a rather emotional and no doubt stressful time with the loss of their horse it would seem...

It's not for us to judge whether the post is true or not (if we did that on every topic in the forum then what would be the point of discussing anything?) I think it's a case of say something useful or nothing at all.


If they knew there was an issue of horses escaping somewhat regularly from their stables then it is their responsibility to implement extra measures to ensure horses remain contained. If they didn't do that then I can't help but feel they should have been some way responsible, although not fully.

I seriously can't believe people actually think that 14 hrs overnight is unacceptable! I'm assuming these people must put their horse in at midnight and be back up at 6 then for their own horses? Most horses on yards are put in by the latest 7 and out between 6-10 - so between 11 and 13 hours!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I am so sorry for your loss. I think just about any door can be opened depending on the horse. HOWEVER, not checking horses for that length of time is ridiculous and yet not uncommon.

I too had my mare on SJ livery. I went near enough everyday because I wanted to make absolutely sure she was ok. Outward appearances suggested this but as time went on little things started happening around the yard. And my mare started losing weight and becoming quite anxious. I packed all her meals so I'm sure her food went elsewhere. Trust me, this is one of my hard to keep weight OFF of horses so for her to become skinny with the amount she was getting was not on. At any rate I got back a mare that had some serious mental issues that I've worked through. I caught him one day beating the crap out of her at my place and the relationship ended.

Anyway this started out as me not wanting to be one of "those" owners. I also thought I was doing best sending my homebred out to a pro instead of having my useless butt on her. I'm not a great ring rider. I have left with the feeling that I will never let anyone have one of mine again. Maybe to jump at shows and lessons with me, but never in full care EVER. I have realised I don't a rat's butt that I am one of those owners. My horses, my money, my rules, my neuroticness!

In all fairness I was worried I was going to get a phone call trying to explain away how Abba got hurt or ended up dead. That's why I brought her home and even then I left it too long. But I kept thinking maybe I was just being over protective so I kept him as her rider. Oh and the weight popped back on almost too quickly confirming my suspicions. Again kept thinking I was being judgemental.

Again I'm sorry for your loss. But having to say I'm not surprised is heartbreaking.

Terri

 

[Rosehip]

Seriously??
One of my bosses horses got his jaw stuck in the old type Lodden bolt on his door and snapped his jaw almost clean off. He has plates, pins and screws put in and the vets stated it was the worst break they had dealt with! Did we take Loddon to court? NO! We should have known better than to leave him without a toy or a bigger net, knowing how he fiddles and faffs! (We have now blocked in all the bolt gaps to prevent further injury.)
Many horses are very clever at opening doors - another on our yard has to have his kick bolt fixed at night as he can open his door and go walkies!

A friends mare was stuck under a sliding door after she tried to open her own door and it sort of jammed. She was lucky to escape (with the help of the fire brigade) with minor injuries.

You cant go blaming people for 'Acts of God' or Sods law. Even if it is very sad for you that you lost your horse, but blaming everyone else for what is essentially a tragic accident wont bring him/her back.

 

[matt_m]

I seriously can't believe people actually think that 14 hrs overnight is unacceptable! I'm assuming these people must put their horse in at midnight and be back up at 6 then for their own horses? Most horses on yards are put in by the latest 7 and out between 6-10 - so between 11 and 13 hours!

I edited that part out of my post where I mentioned it being an unacceptable period to not be checked on because having thought about it I agree with you, BUT I still have a niggle in my mind that thinks that I would expect more from what is described as such a prestigious yard, so I'm not sure on that really.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Well mine never go 14 hours without being checked but maybe I'm the minority.

As for stable doors, well mine all stand behind a single chain. Wrapped chain before people get the wrong idea. For some strange reason I have less incidents now. As one end of the barn has no doors, I have a wood board across the aisle that slides/locks in and out of place. The escape artist who used to let himself out of Monarch boxes now doesn't escape.

Terri

 

[stevieg]

Surely the length of time your horse waits between checks depends on the circumstances in which it/he/she is kept?

If you're on DIYlivery there is every chance there could be 14 hours between visits, particularly in winter.

My daughter has worked on a couple of professional yards and the usual routine seemed to be last checks at about 10pm with the first visit next morning at around 7am