Beware all liveries - horse killed while in livery

With regard to the 'it' discussion - maybe the OP does not want to be identified - using 'it' rather than the horses name may be advisable - especially if there are legal proceedings.

It's still a tragic loss of a horse.
 
Pedantic said:
yep accidents do happen, so I can "maybe" understand the verdict, however 14 hours unchecked FFS, that is piss poor care in my view if it's supposed to be full livery :mad:
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+1 and open gates etc. I'd be pretty angry about that. I'd put it as their responsibility due to not checking often enough and not securing further outside. I wouldn't complain about the barn doors being open, but certainly about the outer gate being open. We have a minimum of 3 closed gates between horses and the road (they live out 24/7), we live on site and it is never unattended over night.

Unfortunately horses can be good escape artists though. I know one who has sliding planks, stable door, two bolts, kick latch and clip on the bolts and still gets out. My share after letting herself out had a clip put on the bolt which she promptly reached down, squeezed the clasp and popped straight off.

Pan
 
Clannad48 said:
With regard to the 'it' discussion - maybe the OP does not want to be identified - using 'it' rather than the horses name may be advisable - especially if there are legal proceedings.

It's still a tragic loss of a horse.
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+1. I also have a habit of calling horses and humans it and switching he/she and then realising. Doesn't mean I love them any less!

Pan
 
badgermyers said:
One of mine opens these doors by rubbing and goes wondering off down the yard. Could also open the american barn doors if not locked!
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Yes, exactly, if one has liveries, one has to take all measures to prevent accidents.
I have to say that I find, and in the past I have found, that a lot of posters have a bad attitude to troubles that owners have to deal with, if, for example, I put my car in a garage for repairs, I would NOT expect it to be damaged beyond repair. No matter what excuse the garage owner came up with.
 
OP I am very sorry for the loss of your horse. It sounds like a very unfortunate chain of events with disastrous consequences.

To everyone else, bear in mind that the Court heard both sides of the story when deciding the outcome of the case, so it is really impossible to say that the decision should have been different on the basis of this thread.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Yes, exactly, if one has liveries, one has to take all measures to prevent accidents.
I have to say that I find, and in the past I have found, that a lot of posters have a bad attitude to troubles that owners have to deal with, if, for example, I put my car in a garage for repairs, I would NOT expect it to be damaged beyond repair. No matter what excuse the garage owner came up with.
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I have to add to this on the other side though. They are not inanimate objects. This means that you should take more precautions, but also means that accidents can happen.

In this case then I'd say the LY is responsible. However with some horses, owners may not give a full history of the horse or notify of vices/allergies/illness etc it has which would change the care routine or endanger other horses, in which case the owner would be responsible if LY was very misinformed of a history which caused the accident.

It also can't account for random illnesses which come up in the course of livery or lameness due to the horse playing out in a field etc.

So although I would want a full investigation done, I wouldn't always blame the LY on face value.

Pan
 
PandorasJar said:
I have to add to this on the other side though. They are not inanimate objects. This means that you should take more precautions, but also means that accidents can happen.

In this case then I'd say the LY is responsible. However with some horses, owners may not give a full history of the horse or notify of vices/allergies/illness etc it has which would change the care routine or endanger other horses, in which case the owner would be responsible if LY was very misinformed of a history which caused the accident.

It also can't account for random illnesses which come up in the course of livery or lameness due to the horse playing out in a field etc.

So although I would want a full investigation done, I wouldn't always blame the LY on face value.

Pan
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No, but in this case the stabling had a known fault AND the horse was able to wander out of the barn, there should always be a back up to stabling, in case a groom leaves stable door unlocked, to prevent horse getting in to trouble.

Very odd ruling, because if I understand the law, it can be used as a precedent in future similar cases. so really what "Duty of Care" does a YO have?
 
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You need both sides to a story before you can judge.
The court heard both sides and decieded in favour of the defendant without both sides being available then I find it hard to blame the livery for what really does sound an unfortunate accident.
 
OP - very sorry for your loss, I agree that 14 hours is too long, in my current and last yard a check is done at 10pm and then they are turning out at 7, I couldn't bear the idea of anything less...its the reason I pay for livery as I cannot offer this care myself!

I don't think I would blame the yard for this if it were me...but then this hasn't happened to me and I am not feeling the upset that you are....if my horse went through hell then I may feel just as you do.

as for the 'it' comments...come on guys! no need!
 
Thankyou OP for your generosity of spirit in posting this thread as a possible warning to liveries. This is something that I shall certainly bear in mind and your post has served to increase my awareness of stable door safety and the awful things that can/may happen, even with well known brands.

Once again, thankyou for your kindness in sharing with others your experiences and I am sorry for your sad loss.
 
One of my old horses kept getting out and staff would find him in the morning happlily eating the hay in the barn. Everyone blamed someone else for not shutting his door properly as it was a sliding door with a weaving grid on top. To open it you had to move one of the poles in the grid up. Never occurred to us it was him as he would stand behind his chain in the day quite happily. He was caught out by someone coming back when he thought all had gone to see that he was lifting the pole and then sliding the door back.

Had another chain put on the outside so he couldn't open the door...
 
Miss L Toe said:
No, but in this case the stabling had a known fault AND the horse was able to wander out of the barn, there should always be a back up to stabling, in case a groom leaves stable door unlocked, to prevent horse getting in to trouble.

Very odd ruling, because if I understand the law, it can be used as a precedent in future similar cases. so really what "Duty of Care" does a YO have?
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And as I said, in this case I agree that the LY would be at fault for lack of checking and poorly secured yard. However your statement was very broad and I merely pointed out the not every case was this clear cut.

Pan
 
Clannad48 said:
With regard to the 'it' discussion - maybe the OP does not want to be identified - using 'it' rather than the horses name may be advisable - especially if there are legal proceedings.

It's still a tragic loss of a horse.
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Damn, I was hoping I'd get to the thread with no one else thinking of this, you stole my thunder! :D

Sorry to hear about your horse, OP. I know it'll remind me to make more of an effort to check my stable doors in future, although Meg has a 'sausage' chain behind her door, just in case.
 
Sorry for your loss OP :(

Sliding doors really do need another form of safety on them, such as a kick bolt. I was on horse camp a few years back and both my lad and his neighbour managed to let themselves out :rolleyes: His neighbour was caught having only managed to scoff his own breakfast, but my lad was only found in the morning, having scoffed every other horse in the row's breakfasts, and opened his own haylage bale and had half of that :o I'm very lucky that he has the constitution of an ox and apart from being a bit lethargic and pooing a lot the next day didn't suffer any ill effects!

He spent the rest of the camp with his leadrope knotted around the door, which seemed to work. I did see him itching on the frame a couple of times, and the whole door jangled so much that it could have easily opened like that and he pushed it the rest of the way. His neighbour had sweet itch so we're guessing the neighbour figured it out first, and he copied. If I had to livery in a barn with those doors again I would buy a small chaiin with a clip to wrap around the door.
 
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