BHS Exams / Examiners: Your feelings good or bad?

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GGRider

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Have you positive or negative experiences of BHS exams / Examiners? TBH, I have had it with examiners, after many years and stages/quals later. Whilst not all bad, I think I would rather stick pins in my ponies than take another exam!

Do you think they are still the best professional exam, essential and relevant today? They have hugely changed very recently.....

Have you left exams feeling defeated and down in the dumps? Or is it just me? I have shelved ambitions to join the BHSI club, they have put me off for good.

Thoughts appreciated......
 
I've enjoyed most of my exams, only met one rather out of touch examiner out of, well, quite a lot now! Have also met some really nice examiners including a couple of fairly local ones I'd like to have some lessons with at some point. Planning on getting as far as I can up the qualification ladder.
 
I was told I should do them when I was working as a groom and doing an equine degree. I tried studying, found even stage one ridiculous, so gave up. I constantly find myself saying "well I didn't do that the BHS way, did I?" and I like to think I am still a competent horseperson.

If I wanted to teach, fair enough I may bother trying to jump through their hoops. Otherwise, I wouldn't put myself through it.

Sorry, possibly not very helpful as I don't actually have any experience of having done them (well, I did do my Riding & Road Safety yeeeears ago!) but those are my feelings!
 
Hey yeah I know how you feel! When you spend the amount of money and time needed to get to that standard. Then you fail on one wee tiny bit! Then to find out afew years later they've changed it so you wouldn't have fully failed now (hope that makes sense!)
But I don't think you should fully give up. Maybe take a bit of a break to remember the fun in what you where working towards!
I hope this helps!
 
Never particularly had any feelings about any examiners. They were always professional and friendly enough to put you at your ease when you're nervous.

Only one springs to mind. I wasn't well at all on the way to my PTT exam (literally stopping the car throwing up!! nice!) I was 1st up to teach a flat lesson, hadn't been sick for an hour, but very ropey. I walked out of the briefing with the examiner and she turned and asked me if I was ok as I didn't look right. I explained what had happened, but was feeling better and wanted a go at the exam. She was so lovely she even went to her car and got me a bottle of water!!!! She told me that if I felt bad at all just to give her the nod and it was fine. I felt she went out of her way to make me feel confident and happy.

I passed too which helps! :)
 
ive done stage one, ride and road and stage 2 (both care and riding) and its only cost me £40 (that was for r &r) so obvs i have done them as they were free (paid by college), i want to do my 3 and PTT, but i have to pay for them. the examiers we have had are lovely luckily.
even i have done stupid things and pasted :)
 
I think they are relevant as they show a commitment to your own education and career path. Im sure many on here will disagree, if you search through old posts they ahve been slated many times.

Some examiners are good some are bad, if you have a bad expereince then complain to the BHS directly not through a post on a forum. Dont meamn to sound rude, but I believed I failed unfarily and complained and got offered a free resit, so they do take on board complaints.

I plan to get as far as I can and like the idea of the new system being able to retake small sections if you fail. I think the BHS are trying to move with the times, and update the qualifications as much as possible.
 
The excuses I've heard out of some examiners mouths beggars belief, so sorry I have not had good experience from the system! Granted I haven't had anything to do with the exam system in years so credit to them if they have hugely updated things, but 15 years ago they were 40 years out of date!!! But then I haven't had brilliant experiences from their welfare officers either!!!
 
Mixed views; some examiners are very encouraging, others are complete miseries.

i am more disappointed (broadly) with exam centres, having seen unsound horses and distinctly dodgy tack on offer for the candidates to use
 
crazyhorse4727 said:
Hey yeah I know how you feel! When you spend the amount of money and time needed to get to that standard. Then you fail on one wee tiny bit! Then to find out afew years later they've changed it so you wouldn't have fully failed now (hope that makes sense!)
But I don't think you should fully give up. Maybe take a bit of a break to remember the fun in what you where working towards!
I hope this helps!
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Exactly what I think, especially when everytime I did my stage 3 care again they just kept failing me on a different part! Grrrrr!
 
the watcher said:
i am more disappointed (broadly) with exam centres, having seen unsound horses and distinctly dodgy tack on offer for the candidates to use
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I had that too! In my PTT exam I had one horse taken out because the saddle was sat on his withers!! I hadn't got down the line to that horse yet and the examiner (same lovely one!) noticed from the gallery and called out to me!! She had it taken out the exam and the exam centre organiser said to her (she was there), oh well because it was a flat exam we just put a dressage saddle on it, it isn't the horses usual saddle!!!!!! The didn't bother checking the fit then?????

I'll add that that centre is regarded as one of the largest exam and training centres in the south!
 
The people who have issues with examiners after failing an exam, why (and I'm genuinely interested here, not looking to start an argument) why do you feel/say that the examiners failed you, which is a very personal take on the situation. Why do you not feel that you failed the exam? Do you feel before you go into the exam that it is an adversarial situation with "them" against you and that they are looking for a reason to fail you, rather than to pass you? Or is it something else?

As I say, I am really interested in how other people look at a situation like this, as I feel quite detached from emotions like those that seem to be displayed here in relation to exams. Is this because I've taken most of my exams as a much older candidate that the norm (30s, rather than teens/early 20s before anybody thinks I'm about to expire!) and after a career where I had to go into court and present a case and similarly had a definitive pass or fail outcome so have perhaps had a lot more experience of being under that sort of pressure, with often serious consequences for my clients if I didn't win?
 
Bethie said:
The people who have issues with examiners after failing an exam, why (and I'm genuinely interested here, not looking to start an argument) why do you feel/say that the examiners failed you, which is a very personal take on the situation. Why do you not feel that you failed the exam? Do you feel before you go into the exam that it is an adversarial situation with "them" against you and that they are looking for a reason to fail you, rather than to pass you? Or is it something else?

As I say, I am really interested in how other people look at a situation like this, as I feel quite detached from emotions like those that seem to be displayed here in relation to exams. Is this because I've taken most of my exams as a much older candidate that the norm (30s, rather than teens/early 20s before anybody thinks I'm about to expire!) and after a career where I had to go into court and present a case and similarly had a definitive pass or fail outcome so have perhaps had a lot more experience of being under that sort of pressure, with often serious consequences for my clients if I didn't win?
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I am prepared to be shot for this opinion but here goes :D :p
It is because the English education system encourages mediocrity, and sets students up to believe that they have a right to enjoy themselves at all times.
They come to believe that they deserve qualifications without any work, effort or skill, with everything made easy for them. The implicit 'message' we send them is that the individual student is not responsible for their own success or failure; it is society that 'failed' them.

In the case of BHS exams, this results in them bleating that the examiners 'failed' them (always unjustly because they are superbly talented according to their own opinions :p), or the horses didn't do what they were meant to, or the tack wasn't right, or the centre wasn't perfect.

I am so sick of it.

Whatever happened to working for what you want in life - for qualifications (educational and vocational) being the product of dedication, and skill, rather than society patronising you by giving you worthless, unfailable qualifications like the current 'continuous assessment' ridden A levels, and unfailable FE qualifications?

No, students aren't working harder, teachers aren't improving; grades are improving because standards are being dragged down because modern young people are assumed to be too stupid/lazy to work.

Rant over.
Phew, I feel better for saying that! :D
S :D
 
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Shilasdair said:
No, students aren't working harder, teachers aren't improving; grades are improving because standards are being dragged down because modern young people are assumed to be too stupid/lazy to work.

Rant over.
Phew, I feel better for saying that! :D
S :D
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Good to get it off your chest :p

I agree,the BHS has always,to me at least, set a high bar for us all to aim for.
They are open about what will be examined at what level,if you are ready you will pass and if you are not good enough why should you?


I fail to see how we can moan that the overall standard of horsemanship is going down,that riders can not ride well enough to school on tricky horses,that instructers are incapable of teaching at the same time as whining about the system that made people strive to get good to begin with!
Sure,the BHS has it's issues,but they are updating their exams(although I feel one of the great things about the BHS exams was they proved competance under pressure which a modular exam does not) and still the best way to measure your quality.
 
My own experience stems from first of all having to get the book and prove that I was correct to the examiner who said I was wrong, then blamed it on not having her glasses! Then in a following ridden exam being failed for not leaning into the jumping position before I got to the fence!

Am I wrong to think this poor?
 
I totally agree with Shils.

The BHS exams are strict and require discipline and hard work. Just because you can ride a horse well and win affiliated competitions doesn't mean you are capable of passing any BHS exams.

The driving test is also pretty strict. Once we've all passed it we then go on through experience to change the way we drive and mostly we are safe. But I don't think that anyone would ever argue that the driving test is unnecessary?

Learn the correct way to do things, get them right and be examined on them - and then go on to hone your skills and develop with a really good sound background of knowledge.

I know too many young people who think they are the dog's wotsits and can set themselves up as yard managers or trainers even, without anything more than a Pony Club B test. They should get off their backsides and work at getting worthwhile qualifications behind them if they want to be taken seriously as equine professionals in my opinion.
 
Shilasdair said:
I am prepared to be shot for this opinion but here goes :D :p
It is because the English education system encourages mediocrity, and sets students up to believe that they have a right to enjoy themselves at all times.
They come to believe that they deserve qualifications without any work, effort or skill, with everything made easy for them. The implicit 'message' we send them is that the individual student is not responsible for their own success or failure; it is society that 'failed' them.

In the case of BHS exams, this results in them bleating that the examiners 'failed' them (always unjustly because they are superbly talented according to their own opinions :p), or the horses didn't do what they were meant to, or the tack wasn't right, or the centre wasn't perfect.

I am so sick of it.

Whatever happened to working for what you want in life - for qualifications (educational and vocational) being the product of dedication, and skill, rather than society patronising you by giving you worthless, unfailable qualifications like the current 'continuous assessment' ridden A levels, and unfailable FE qualifications?

No, students aren't working harder, teachers aren't improving; grades are improving because standards are being dragged down because modern young people are assumed to be too stupid/lazy to work.

Rant over.
Phew, I feel better for saying that! :D
S :D
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of this.

I've got a teenager riding my horses at the moment, who is grumbling because her college won't let her do her stage 2. She is nowhere near stage 2 level, but has no idea. People think that just because they can jump a certain height they should pass. I had a lady at our local RC tell me that she was practically at AI level because she was about to take her RC grade 3 (which she was unlikely to pass, but again too arrogant to know).

Students aren't the same nowadays. In the past, most came from working yards, whereas nowadays they are from "universities" that are actually poshed up agricultural colleges.

When I got my AI, you got your results on the day, nowadays you don't because there has been too much argueing/abuse from candidates.

I'm not a fan of the idea of splitting the exam into modules either. Yes the stage 3 is a long, stressful day, but loads of us got through it in the past. Making the exams less stressful and splitting them up, then giving the same qualification as those of us that did the "hard" exam is not fair.

And yes, you will find some people who have got their AI who don't seem to merit it, but you'll find a lot more who failed their AI who don't merit it.
 
competitiondiva said:
My own experience stems from first of all having to get the book and prove that I was correct to the examiner who said I was wrong, then blamed it on not having her glasses! Then in a following ridden exam being failed for not leaning into the jumping position before I got to the fence!

Am I wrong to think this poor?
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or

"I had a different way of doing something and the examiner questioned why I was doing it in that manner, I was able to provide evidence to back up my belief that it was a valid method."

and

"I may have been behind the movement at a jump"

perhaps?

There is a great, almost universally held it seems, belief that there is a single BHS way of doing things. There isn't. They want you to show a safe way of performing a specified job with a horse that you aren't familiar with, if you read the different official text book series even there, there are different methods put forward that "contradict" each other if you hold the belief that there is only one right answer. Examiners are human, they can't know everything about everything - its your job to explain why you're using a particular method if its a way they aren't familiar with - that's all. Offer an answer they are happy with and that's generally that.

On the riding side, I ride at Medium in dressage, and failed stage 2 riding twice on the flatwork because tension meant I didn't ride anywhere near how I usually do. Go figure. Unless you can video your performance (and it might yet come to the point where that is necessary for all exams), you don't know if what you felt when riding is the same as what the examiners were seeing. Haven't you ever had a ride videod at home or at a competition where you felt it went really well (or really bad) yet looking back at the film it looks completely different from the outside? Also the jumping is best looked at as a style and performance type round, rather than judging it solely on whether you managed to clear the fences.

I think it really would help you to let go of the emotion you are holding about the exams you are talking about in order to move on, however that might be for you. Negative thoughts/energy, whatever the cause (and however "right" you feel about that cause) only drain us and stop us from moving forward in life as well as we can.
 
Yikes, I was only a teenager ten years ago and I fully accept that my B's at 'A' level rather than A grades were totally my own fault. I'm not sure it's fair to generalise about young people to such an extent.

I haven't done my stages as I never felt the need ( I have a science degree and work as a scientist, so hardly relevant) so don't know if they're fair or not but I do think it is very unfair indeed to say all young people are work shy whingers!

Things are allowed to change. I can only see it as a positive that the BHS are moving with the times. Very few professional exams last a whole day so why would stage 3 need to?
 
jesstickle said:
Yikes, I was only a teenager ten years ago and I fully accept that my B's at 'A' level rather than A grades were totally my own fault. I'm not sure it's fair to generalise about young people to such an extent.

I haven't done my stages as I never felt the need ( I have a science degree and work as a scientist, so hardly relevant) so don't know if they're fair or not but I do think it is very unfair indeed to say all young people are work shy whingers!

Things are allowed to change. I can only see it as a positive that the BHS are moving with the times. Very few professional exams last a whole day so why would stage 3 need to?
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Clearly your studies didn't teach you to read correctly - if you are referring to my post - re-read and see if you can deduce where I place the blame for educational failings. :p
If you work on a yard breaking/schooling, as a professional in the equine industry, then you have to ride the last horse of the day as well as you ride the first...that's why BHS exams should accurately represent a working day in teaching/riding/stable management.
S :D
 
Bethie said:
or

"I had a different way of doing something and the examiner questioned why I was doing it in that manner, I was able to provide evidence to back up my belief that it was a valid method."

and

"I may have been behind the movement at a jump"

perhaps?

sadly no, I know I'm not perfect but the question was a simple right or wrong answer the examiner got wrong and had to be corrected by a child, and then hear the excuse of needing glasses?!! And the jumping I questioned as I quenuinely wanted to know where I'd gone wrong and every other person there was astounded by the result! I'm not saying I was perfect, and will hold my hands up if someone points out a genuine mistake/fault etc but I was simply told that i should fold before I arrive at the fence, now maybe the examiner meant that I was behind the movement, but they did not say this nor explain themselves very well. I've gone past the stages now this experience as I've said was a fair few years ago and I hope things have changed/improved with annual examiner refresher training, I'm just pointing out my experiences of poor examiners in the past. But again, am sure there are as many good examiners as bad, hopefully more so, but then you only hear of bad experiences, and the minority spoil it for the majority as in most walks of life!!!
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competitiondiva said:
Bethie said:
or

"I had a different way of doing something and the examiner questioned why I was doing it in that manner, I was able to provide evidence to back up my belief that it was a valid method."

and

"I may have been behind the movement at a jump"

perhaps?

sadly no, I know I'm not perfect but the question was a simple right or wrong answer the examiner got wrong and had to be corrected by a child, and then hear the excuse of needing glasses?!! And the jumping I questioned as I quenuinely wanted to know where I'd gone wrong and every other person there was astounded by the result! I'm not saying I was perfect, and will hold my hands up if someone points out a genuine mistake/fault etc but I was simply told that i should fold before I arrive at the fence, now maybe the examiner meant that I was behind the movement, but they did not say this nor explain themselves very well. I've gone past the stages now this experience as I've said was a fair few years ago and I hope things have changed/improved with annual examiner refresher training, I'm just pointing out my experiences of poor examiners in the past. But again, am sure there are as many good examiners as bad, hopefully more so, but then you only hear of bad experiences, and the minority spoil it for the majority as in most walks of life!!!
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You went for an exam with an expert. You disagreed with the expert, who thought your riding, in particular your jumping position was below pass level. You think your opinion is the one that should count?!
How does that work in life? :mad:
Should I be able to decide whether I'd make a jolly good neurosurgeon? Should I award myself a PhD? Who are those damn dressage judges who don't give me a red rosette every time?
Get real - you failed because you were below standard in the jumping (and other candidates were too kind, probably, to tell you when you clearly sucked).
S :D
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Shilasdair said:
competitiondiva said:
You went for an exam with an expert. You disagreed with the expert, who thought your riding, in particular your jumping position was below pass level. You think your opinion is the one that should count?!
How does that work in life? :mad:
Should I be able to decide whether I'd make a jolly good neurosurgeon? Should I award myself a PhD? Who are those damn dressage judges who don't give me a red rosette every time?
Get real - you failed because you were below standard in the jumping (and other candidates were too kind, probably, to tell you when you clearly sucked).
S :D
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lol, I'm not saying I should have passed, not once have I said that, it's the reasons/excuses used not the fact i failed that doesn't sit well with me! Now if I was behind the movement etc, then say this, or tell me why I was below standard, I can take it! And why say that you need your glasses to see what I've written, but marked it incorrectly without them anyway!!! I don't think the world owes me or that I'm better than others, but I do know when an excuse is poor!
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competitiondiva said:
Shilasdair said:
lol, I'm not saying I should have passed, not once have I said that, it's the reasons/excuses used not the fact i failed that doesn't sit well with me! Now if I was behind the movement etc, then say this, or tell me why I was below standard, I can take it! And why say that you need your glasses to see what I've written, but marked it incorrectly without them anyway!!! I don't think the world owes me or that I'm better than others, but I do know when an excuse is poor!
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Examiners get a lot of abuse from know-it-all candidates. I know that you wouldn't be rude enough to do that, but perhaps the examiner was trying to calm you down.
I mean, sometimes my students gave me truly, astoundingly, amazingly stupid answers to questions, but I didn't say 'what are you havering about, you halfwit?' I say 'well, there's some interesting points there' or something equally gentle before I try to correct the fools. :D
Perhaps your examiner meant that you weren't folding fast enough over a jump, so obviously aren't used to jumping larger sized fences, and are therefore not suitable to pass?
If you didn't understand her feedback, you should have asked her at the time, or had lessons to find out where you went wrong.
S :D
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Shilasdair said:
competitiondiva said:
Examiners get a lot of abuse from know-it-all candidates. I know that you wouldn't be rude enough to do that, but perhaps the examiner was trying to calm you down.
I mean, sometimes my students gave me truly, astoundingly, amazingly stupid answers to questions, but I didn't say 'what are you havering about, you halfwit?' I say 'well, there's some interesting points there' or something equally gentle before I try to correct the fools. :D
Perhaps your examiner meant that you weren't folding fast enough over a jump, so obviously aren't used to jumping larger sized fences, and are therefore not suitable to pass?
If you didn't understand her feedback, you should have asked her at the time, or had lessons to find out where you went wrong.
S :D
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I take what you say on board, but would like to add that I was having lessons at the time! I think maybe with that examiner it was a case of poor explanation to maybe a genuine point, as I said i never proclaimed that I should have passed just the reason for not doing so. But there is no disputing the glasses excuse in the other exam, she was trying to dig herself out of a big hole and should have just held her hand up and said thank you for that, and changed my marks accordingly!!!!
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I have up to stage 3.

I once had a sod of a horse extreamly strong, tied everything. Eventualy offered myself up as guinea pig to Rob Hoekstra for a demo. Long and short of it started training with him and produced miricals, but he told me "forget everything the BHS taught you" its time to ride properly.

One of things that is different is the aid to canter. He said flex to inside, and squeeze. no leg behing girth, hip here, shoulders there, weight there, he says it puts the horse out of balance and its no wonder horses have so many issues with their backs as the riders are busy contorting (sp?) themselfs into daft positions!

Makes my life easier as im dyslexic but my issue isnt reading/writing its mind/body co-ordination. I gave up riding like id always struggled with, he put me on lunge and made me ride with my eyes closed - which included small jumps. Now i think what i want and the horse does it (well most of the time!) and its a blessing, my competing got better, horses went better and we connected.

Essenatialy forget BHS, ride by feel and connection. So my opionion of exams?......lets just say i didnt bother going any further with them.
 
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