Bhs stage 4 tacking up fail!

rubyroo92

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So took my stage 4 a week ago and I've failed my tacking up due to not knowing what the curb chain was for even though I told her it applies pressure in the chin groove once bit is at 45 degrees .. and for stating that I would put the Martingale on the snaffle rein not the curb rein however some may differ .. not really happy ..
 

spacefaer

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I can't see a problem with your answers - what else did she want?

Although it would depend on how tight the curb chain was fitted as to what angle it came into effect.
 

ester

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I would have said a few more things than just the application of curb pressure from the curb bit, re prevention of over-rotation and stabilisation.

With the martingale perhaps they wanted the theoretical answers for why you would put it on either rein?
 

PapaverFollis

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Plus the curb "enhances" the action of the bit?

Would one put a martingale on the curb rein at all? I would have just said the snaffle rein?
 

PapaverFollis

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Interesting. I suppose that makes sense in theory. In practice I'd worry that it would mean the curb action could end up quite harsh! But if you're sticking a martingale on alongside a curb bit you're probably wanting a strong action!
 

teapot

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I'd generally think at stage 4 they'd expect you to be able to discuss things rather than there being yes/no answers but I might be completely wrong in that.

No, you're really not.

You needed to explain what the curb does once it comes into effect, (pressure and to prevent over rotation of the curb bit), when you would want this to happen and why. Moreover most likely to mention with an example (eg the horse in front of you) of other considerations such as size of the horse's mouth etc.
 
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The Fuzzy Furry

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With a martingale on a bridle with 2 reins, the BHS way is on the bottom rein as mentioned above, as it acts to lower the head once it comes into action, so is counter productive on the upper rein. The martingale can also foul the lower rein, if it's on the top rein, if the bradoon is held in the hand on the outside as the curb rein will be between the 3rd and 4th finger. (BHS way).
OP, you should have mugged this up before going, and also the use and action of a curb chain as both std equipment in use.
 
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With a martingale on a bridle with 2 reins, the BHS way is on the bottom rein as mentioned above, as it acts to lower the head once it comes into action, so is counter productive on the upper rein. The martingale can also foul the lower rein, if it's on the top rein, if the bradoon is held in the hand on the outside as the curb rein will be between the 3rd and 4th finger. (BHS way).
OP, you should have mugged this up before going, and also the use and action of a curb chain as both std equipment in use.

I ride with my bradoon like a normal set of reins and my curb under my pinky. That's just how I have always done it.

But to do exams and such like it doesn't matter how you do it at home it is how it is expected to be done to pass an exam. It's the same with any form of exam.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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I don't know what the "correct" answer is but tbh with a double in need of a martingale I would only use a standing - a running would interfere with the action of both of the bits too much. Would be interesting to know what the official answer was

Agree with this! From my Pony Club days (which OK was a LONG long time ago!) we were always taught that using a running martingale with a curb bit i.e. with two reins, is a huge "no-no", you just absolutely wouldn't ever do it - so in my mind at least, this would be a bit of a trick question?? If one had to use a martingale, with a curb bit, it would be a standing martingale only.

This is exactly why cynical old gits like myself are hugely critical of the BHS examinations system: its all about "correctness" and NOT whether someone can actually ride and/or care for a horse properly.......... to my (admittedly cynical) mind anyway.

(Edited) Please note I am NOT saying this is the case with the OP; just my observation about BHS exams in general and their usefulness).
 

greybadger19

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This is exactly why cynical old gits like myself are hugely critical of the BHS examinations system: its all about "correctness" and NOT whether someone can actually ride and/or care for a horse properly.......... to my (admittedly cynical) mind anyway.

As I am working my way through the system at the moment (recently passed all the Stage 4 stuff, with BHS exams starting in a few weeks...), I'm happy to say that this is not my experience. At S4 level, you are expected to have a view informed from knowledge and experience, and be able to discuss it. I had very similar questions in my S4 tacking up bit - they are looking for you to esentially have a discussion with yourself without further prompting, as indicated above. In this instance, the effect of the action, the stability, link to pressure on the poll, bars, roof, chin groove, confirmation of the mouth and head, pros and cons of putting a martingale on either rein, shape of the curb bit, etc etc should all be discussed.

I have disagreed with examiners a few times, and as I'm speaking from an informed and logical opinion (and not having a stand up row, but a professional discussion between professionals), it hasn't done me any harm. It's if you have a lack of knowledge / experience (or fail to express it), or a lack of a training philosophy that isn't harmful to the horse, that raises concerns with the examiners, not a 'BHS way'.
 

ester

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Good to hear greybadger and I'm glad that I was right that by stage 4 it isn't about knowing the right answers but why they may or may not be the right answers/ pros and cons/circumstances you might do one or the other.
 

catkin

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agree with the above - it is good to know that at Stage 4 it is the reasoning and discussion that is being examined.

When a young instructor is out there in the big wide world you can guarantee that their pupils will ask 'why?', 'what if it doesn't suit my pony?' and similar questions - and they won't all be fobbed-off with a 'just because' answer, they will want explanations and theory.
 

Ceifer

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Agree with greybadger

At that level you should be able to discuss why you are doing something in detail. I found that (within reason) most examiners would accept things that may not be 100% BHS but if you had a good reason to do it and a decent explanation you would be fine.

I had to fit a double in my stage 3 (many moons ago) and they asked me to put a running martingale on. I fitted the martingale to the Bridoon rein as at the time that’s what was taught even though I agree that logically it would make more sense on the curb rein.
When questioned I explained that if I was tacking up for a rider I would ask which rein they would like the martingale attached to.
 

teapot

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As I am working my way through the system at the moment (recently passed all the Stage 4 stuff, with BHS exams starting in a few weeks...), I'm happy to say that this is not my experience. At S4 level, you are expected to have a view informed from knowledge and experience, and be able to discuss it. I had very similar questions in my S4 tacking up bit - they are looking for you to esentially have a discussion with yourself without further prompting, as indicated above. In this instance, the effect of the action, the stability, link to pressure on the poll, bars, roof, chin groove, confirmation of the mouth and head, pros and cons of putting a martingale on either rein, shape of the curb bit, etc etc should all be discussed.

I have disagreed with examiners a few times, and as I'm speaking from an informed and logical opinion (and not having a stand up row, but a professional discussion between professionals), it hasn't done me any harm. It's if you have a lack of knowledge / experience (or fail to express it), or a lack of a training philosophy that isn't harmful to the horse, that raises concerns with the examiners, not a 'BHS way'.

Absolutely agree. I disagreed with my examiner in my Stage 2 regarding what boots I'd used for travelling. The exam system has changed so much, it's very much about practical experience and knowledge, not book learnt answers, and they appreciate it too.
 

TheMule

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With a martingale on a bridle with 2 reins, the BHS way is on the bottom rein as mentioned above, as it acts to lower the head once it comes into action, so is counter productive on the upper rein. The martingale can also foul the lower rein, if it's on the top rein, if the bradoon is held in the hand on the outside as the curb rein will be between the 3rd and 4th finger. (BHS way).
OP, you should have mugged this up before going, and also the use and action of a curb chain as both std equipment in use.


And yet I’m affiliated sport you have to use it on the bradoon rein....
 

greybadger_19

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And yet I’m affiliated sport you have to use it on the bradoon rein....

Another bit of knowledge to discuss in an exam. Differences between competition and schooling, competition rules, etc etc.

Yup. I was always taught to use a standing if there were 2 reins on the bridle, and still would now.

I just don’t like martingales full stop :-D
 

teddypops

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Absolutely agree. I disagreed with my examiner in my Stage 2 regarding what boots I'd used for travelling. The exam system has changed so much, it's very much about practical experience and knowledge, not book learnt answers, and they appreciate it too.
I did my stage 2 about 30 years ago and I also had a couple of disagreements with examiner but she was more than happy to listen to my reasons and I was the only one to pass that day, everyone else just churned out the ‘correct’ answers! (Back then you were informed of your result on the day).
 

BOWS28

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From my experience, they are fairly good if your answer isn't exactly what they would mark as correct on paper, if you are able to discuss why you've done it and why others may do it differently.
Also its good to discuss what you would do at home and why and what differences, if any, you would make at competition. Mentioning rules etc and touching on scales of training etc. Unfortunately, every examiner is different.
Feeling comfortable to speak around a subject will always help you too. Best of luck :) fingers crossed for you x
 
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