Big dog rant

Irishcobs

Irishcobs

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2005
Messages
6,174
Visit site
Why do people have dogs they can not control?
Was hacking Gyp this afternoon, thought I would go up the lanes as have had problems with idiot drivers in the village, and a car came up behind me. These lanes are only just a cars width so I trotted on to the nearest layby. Opposite the layby a lady had stopped with her rotweiler. As I pulled in, the dog lunged at us causing Gyp to spin, I caught him and stopped him so he only got quarter of the way round but we still ended up with his front end infront of the car. The driver slammed on the brakes, luckily they were only trickling by. I turned Gyp back and got him passed the dog which was going mad, throwing its self at us, barking and growling, the lady could hardly hold it. Gyp was terrorfied of the dog but bless him he went passed it. We then trotted on to the next gateway and let the car come passed. The driver stopped so I said I was very sorry, I didn't know the dog was going to do that, the driver was fine about it, saying exactly what I was thinking, why have such a big, strong dog if you can't control them.
We continued our hack, although Gyp was worried that a dog was going to get him at every corner. It only really hit me after the adrenline had died down, just how close it had been, which set me off.
God knows if Gyp will go passed a dog again, I'm going to try with my big lurcher, who is very quiet tomorrow.
 
Ignorant people are so annoying. We was hacking out and someone was coming with their dog and they didnt bother putting it on a lead until the last minute.
People who dont slow their cars past are annoying as well. Ooft.
 
I had 3 terriers chasing my horse from behind a few weeks ago down a bridletrack. Snarling and yapping and trying to get close to him which made the horse spook.
No sign of any owners at all and Doug is not the kind of horse you could not see as he is huge.
Needless to say the air was blue and if I ever recognise the dogs again and spot the owners they will get a severe ear bashing!
Btw I also own 2 dogs and would never let them terrorise a horse in any way as I know what it is like from a rider's point of view.
Whether it is along a bridletrack or roadside I believe that every dog owner/handler has a duty of care to any passers by ( mounted or otherwise) and so have a responsibility to keep their dogs under proper control at all times!
rant over ......
Caz
 
Not sure I understand why you say she wasn't in control of the dog? if it was on a lead and didn't escape off it then surely it was sort of controlled - and how many people could stop their dogs from barking and lunging at something when on a lead - all you could do was to hold onto the lead as short as possible?

is it not similar to your horse spooking at something in the hedge when on a road but you controlling it with your legs and reins from going into the middle of the road?

Have I missed something?
confused.gif
smile.gif
 
As I dog owner I would never let my dogs bark and lunge at anything, horses people etc. This dog dragged its owner into the road to get to me. How is that in control?
 
Can't train a big dog on a short lead anyway the first thing your taught in training is not to shorten your lead!
About 18mnths ago the bridlepath behind me was closed for 3mnths because of the Gypsy dogs!Knowing what mules can do to a dog I carried on walking Malaga in hand anyway.The pack shot out including the ChowX which I knew chased sheep and Malaga just stood calmly with one hind leh just slightly cocked ans waiting.The dog took one look and backed off hastily
grin.gif

I wonder if he'd been on the WWW and seen what Mules do with ittle putty tats
grin.gif

Mule1-1.jpg
 
Hmmmmm I agree with the previous comment - if the dogs remained on the lead at all times then they are under control!

Them making a big noise at the horse is something the horse should be able to deal with ok: otherwise is horse not under basic control....... even my 4yo hacking alone copes with that?

And the size of the dog is fairly irrelevant, terriers tend to be worse as they tend to weave in and out of horses legs which even the steadiest horses struggle with. So the other case cited esp with no owner in sight is in my view the irresponsible one.

If this lady has no access to horses then she would not have been able to train her dogs to be steady to horses.

We often have big and little dogs looking like the hounds of hell lunging and barking at the horses, but as long as they remain on the lead that's OK with me. Loose unaccompanied dogs, esp in packs are not!
 
Size of the dog has plenty of relevance in relation to the person 'controlling' it.

Lets face it, a grown man has more chance of stopping a large dog lunging than what could possibly be a waif of a woman.
 
I think your all right from both sides of the argument, but yapping barking lunging dogs are a pain in the arse whether your on a horse or not.
 
I just take the opinion that if it gets close enough to either of my horses they will kick out. If the owner of the dog has a problem I will inform them that the dog should not have been allowed to get so close and my horse must have been scared.

I have been known to tell dog owners that if their dog gets any closer it'll get a hoof across the backside so at least they get a warning.

My dog knows not to push her luck after being threatened by my mare's hooves and being picked up by my geldings teeth.

Don't get me wrong, i'd much rather my dog hadn't been 'got' and i'd much rather my horses never got close enough to kick anyone else's dogs but that's the owners problem surely?
 
I didn't really understand parts of the post either, sorry.

Were you going into the layby? Where the dog was? Or was the dog on the other side of the road?
 
[ QUOTE ]
i'd much rather my horses never got close enough to kick anyone else's dogs but that's the owners problem surely?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm I don't know, but I would suspect that in the eyes of the Law, if your horse was to kick and do damage to a dog which was on a lead and with it's owner, then you might be the one deemed not in control and as such, it could be you that is sued for not having control of your animal.
 
My Po will kick out at dogs including my own, he has kicked an alsation which was off the lead and running round and round us and at his back legs, it went off with a yelp, I always tell people if there dog is out of control that he will kick it, they have been warned and it's their dog out of control off the lead, not my pony.
 
I was going in to the layby to let the car pass me. The dog was on the other side of the road. I stopped and the dog lunged at us, dragging its owner into the road.
 
The dog was clearly not under control even though it was on the lead and could have caused a major accident. If a dog is well trained the owner wouldn't have had any control issues and the dog wouldn't have been barking - as always it's the ignorant owners fault!
 
Absolutely, if the dog drags the owner over to the horse and into the road they are no longer in control
To defend waif like women some of them have very big dogs and control them fine :-)

the trick is that the owner should know if they can control them - but then the same applies to some horse riders, parents of kids, car drivers etc.

I dont think a generic 'Big Dog Rant' is fair - all sizes of dog can and do cause problems, and most of them dont cause any problem.
 
I think this is just an unfortunate incident, the dog was on a lead so the woman was making an attempt to control it, If a horse shys at things it meets out hacking this is also something that happens, animals are unpredictable things we are never fully in control of what may happen (however much we think we are) We take the choice to ride out and accept that other people have just as much right to be there with their animals and as long as it wasn't off the lead and chasing u then it wasn't out of control! The same argument could be used for horse riders when our horses spook IE we're not in full controll of them!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
The dog was clearly not under control even though it was on the lead and could have caused a major accident. If a dog is well trained the owner wouldn't have had any control issues and the dog wouldn't have been barking - as always it's the ignorant owners fault!

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you get to that well trained bit then? I'm not defending dogs running around loose, nor dogs clearly not under control here, but I have a dog that barks and lunges at things. To put that into perspective - he is a foster dog for a rescue. He has been ill-treated and not socialised. I am doing all I can to socialise and train him. Meanwhile, if he is in a situation where he is frightened, that's what he does. Where I need more control, I walk him in a Dogmatic.

Just putting the other side of the coin here. In your book it seems I am an ignorant dog owner
frown.gif
 
Bunter I don't think for one minute Irishcobs is insuating that at all.
I think she means - and quite rightly so in my opinion- that people shouldn't have dogs that are too big for them to control.
While I can understand that conditioning a dog to different circumstances and other animals is paramount to training a dog successfully imo it does help if you are strong enough to be able to cope with a lunging or exciting dog.
I have seen dogs chase and lunge at cars and other vehicles as they go past. Surely it would be prudent to say that dogs that suffer with anxiety towards traffic or view them as prey animals need professional training or else one day their actions could very well cause an accident.
Imo if someone is not strong enough physically to control a wilfull dog then they should not be walking it in public places unless they use some sort of restraining equipment.
While accidents do happen and I agree that some may occur despite people's best efforts to prevent them, I do also concur that there are people in charge of dogs that have little or no control of them altogether.
Puny women with little strength in charge of rottweilers or mastiff types are a clear example.
I have a dog that pulls on the lead although he doesn't lunge at anything unless provoked ( he has been attacked by a dog twice which has changed his temperament) and when out walking he will wear a harness or halter ( latter stops pulling completely). He would have a mammoth task in trying to pull me across a road as I weigh much heavier than the dog lol but in some cases I have seen people of a much lighter frame walking dogs that could eat them for breakfast and still have room for more.
So I think the OP makes some very valid points imo.
As for training horses I think that as riders we have as much right as anybody to be on the road and even more so after the closure of bridlepaths nationwide. Where else are we supposed to hack if we don't have schooling facilities?
I must add though that as a dog owner I was gulity once of my dog being off the lead around a horse.
It was on the same path that I ride with my horse. We don't take the dogs down there very often, preferring to go in woods near to home. However when the ground is really wet we sometimes take them to Bateswood.
When in the woods and along Bateswood we let the dogs off lead because it is the only place I can let my older dog off for a run and he will return to call -as he runs off on the local park - and despite attempts to retrain he will not break the habit
frown.gif
Both my dogs live out in a run and so I think it is only fair to allow them exercise off the lead since the rest of the time they are essentially boxed in a run ( even though it is big).
When we go to Bateswood we normally let the dogs off by the pool but I used to occasionally (if quiet) let them off the lead before we turn for the pool.
One day a horse and rider appeared from nowhere as there are a few blind spots as you first go onto the path, I managed to get hold of one dog but my daughter who was younger than she is now ran after the other dog instead of calling and the dog thought it was a game and carried on going. We caught her just in front of the rider but she didn't yap, lunge or intimidate the horse in any way. I said I was sorry to the rider and I felt really guilty about it because as a rider I knew what the experience is like aboard a horse.
Since then we don't ever let them off until we are on the path to the pool but we only go there a couple of times a year anyway. Just being honest by posting that story as that is the type of person I am. I do think about consequences of actions and have a huge conscience too which sadly I don't think a great many people have.
Caz
 
For the record here are my two dogs which are usually well behaved. Pics taken a few years ago before I bought them a run. Sweep is a JR bitch and BJ ( don't laugh lol don't know what possessed me to call him that) is a crossbreed rescue from the organisation I won't mention.
my16053_edited.jpg

bj_edited.jpg


btw I have resized on photobucket to website size before posting but it hasn't on here
frown.gif
 
Cazee - I too think that Irishcobs made some good points. The phrase I took issue with was not made by Irishcobs. The point I was trying to make was that dogs, just like horses, necessarily go through a process to get to the point of being well trained. A horse doesn't just become traffic proof, for instance - it needs controlled exposure to get to that stage.

The driver of the car, for instance, could equally be moaning all over the internet about someone who couldn't control their horse! I'm just trying to put across a view from the other side. How many non-horsey car drivers do you hear moaning about horse riders letting their horse dance all over the road - after getting spooked by something daft? Couldn't the same charge of not being in control be levied there? How many times has that been heard?

Irishcobs may have been right about this particular instance, in that the dog was too strong for its handler, but while I am trying to rehabilitate my foster dog, unfortunately there will be some barking and lunging. Perhaps a little less of a blanket condemnation of 'ignorant owners' and 'could have caused a 'major accident' is in order? It wasn't the dog that was in the road after all.............
 
Bunter while I agree with some of what you are saying and can now see the post you were referring to then perhaps is it prudent for me to say you are being a little too defensive of one's own actions?
Not every dog owner is responsible. Just like there are idiots driving on the road that perhaps should not have passed their test in the first place. Equally there are some riders who perhaps don't have much consideration for others around them.
However the point is being that socialising a dog is far easier than bomb proofing a horse on the road.
I should know as like you I too have a rescue dog that had formerly been a stray. He still has some issues now towards hi viz dressed people and so on and I have had him for 8 years!
I took him to dog training classes as recommended by a dog warden as I had a dog that would have put even Houdini to shame. When he was at the centre he was fine and I was told by the instructors that he was well behaved and had no barking issues.
So I can understand partly in what you saying and also I wish to add that by using restraining equipment in certain situations you are being responsible.
However by point is being that I think maybe you have a slight issue about horses being on the road in the first place especially with your closing comment of "It wasn't the dog that was in the road after all...."
That may have been true at some point of Irishcobs experience with the said dog but if you read her later post she clearly describes how the dog dragged the woman into the road. Therefore your comment is only partially correct isn't it?
A horse is classed as livestock and as such need to be led on the roads for access or ridden on the roads. Dogs can be led on the pavements or road verges so there is a big difference between the handling of both animals.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could lead them ( horses) safely well away from all vehicles .
The fact is though for most of us we cannot.
Crossing roads, leading along roads and even riding along them is all part and parcel of riding and owning a horse. While it may be true to say that there are some people who choose never to ride or lead on roads I would go as far as to say that most people who have ridden have probably encountered a road riding or leading a horse or pony at some point in their lives.
If there is such an issue about horses being on the roads then why keep closing bridleways?
This is a subject very close to my heart and one which in the near future I will be campaigning locally for improvements in our area as North Staffs has a very poor number of bridleways.
Only the other day I was talking about this issue with someone who told me that many bridleways are being replaced by footpath signs and the styles are being made non horse accessible, which to me is a diabolical situation!
I have been guilty of walking my dogs along a bridleway that much I do admit but it is rare as we prefer to go to the park or my local woods. Usually we only have to step onto it a little way now from the car park and then cut across the fields and a new path (that has been made) to get to the pool, as my dogs like to swim.
However there is a huge number of dogs that use the bridleway and they start at either end.
There are walkers, people on bikes, quad bikes and so on the list is endless.
I personally feel if we must share our bridleways with other people and users then drivers must also share their roads with horse riders.
You can't have it both ways.
There are miles and miles of paths and walkways throughout the countryside for people and dog walkers to use. Now compare this to the lesser number of miles of paths which are bridleways ( will find out exact figures at a later date once I start attending meetings).
The point I am trying to make is that it is all well and good trying to make a point about riders on roads ( which I believe you are) however what about the issue of dog walkers using bridleways that are meant to be a safe route for horses when there are so many other paths and routes for the dog handlers to choose?
If I had my choice I would prefer not to ride on the road however we don't have a school/menage and the bridleway can only be accessed by road from my yard's position.
Just a quick question to end though. Do you ride or have horses and have you ever been aboard a horse which has been terrified of a dog yapping or lunging at it? If so were you able to control the horse fully so as not to pose any risk to pedestrians or vehicle drivers alike ( assuming you were on a road at the time)?
Caroline
 
Hi Cazee

While it might not seem like it, we are arguing on the same side here
smile.gif
.

Yes, I have ridden, owned, broken and schooled many horses and ponies. I was pigtailed and pony clubbed, did gymkhanas, ODEs, hunted, and schooled point to pointers. Never raced, as at that time I was too young (more years ago than I care to remember). I have been aboard a horse when it has spooked in the road. So I realise it is nigh on impossible to fully control a horse at all times in all situations.

I think we are possibly not getting the point of each other's posts. Difficult on a forum where you can't see someone's face or hear the tone of voice
ooo.gif


I must have missed the bit where Irishcobs mentioned the dog being in the road
blush.gif
- so I apologise for that.

Thing is, dogs, horses and other animals are not inanimate objects, and can be unpredicatable, no matter how well trained or schooled. Also, as said before, there is a learning process to go through to get to the well trained and schooled bit. I don't know that I necessarily agree with you about which is easier - socialising a dog or bombproofing a horse - depends on the individuals concerned (you should see some of the foster dogs
shocked.gif
) - but no matter.

There are car drivers that need to understand better and be more considerate of horses on the road. It seems that there are also some horse riders that need to be a little more considerate of dog owners. Interesting comment you made about being guilty of walking your dog on a bridleway. I hadn't thought before about avoiding them - although subconsciously I must do as I only ever use them for a short distance to get from one footpath to another where there is no alternative - much like horses and roads I guess
smile.gif
. I want my dogs to be able to run about and have fun. They can't do this if there are horses about, as they would need to be on a lead, for everyone's safety.

I really don't have an issue with horses being on the road. Personally I avoided them where possible, but like you say, it's impossible to go on a hack wihout using them at some point, no matter for how short a period. Do horses still have the right of way on the road? I used to enjoy telling irate car drivers that
grin.gif
.

So - I guess my point was / is that if from a horse riders point of view you are asking people to realise and understand that a horse sometimes spooks at things, can that same courtesy not be extended to dog walkers?

So - can we kiss and make up now pretty please
grin.gif


Jo
PS - Can bridleways really be re-classified as footpaths? Is this something the council / highways department has jurisdiction over?
 
I am sorry this happened to you. I have a large Rottie who is very well trained, obviously this person has not trained her dog, owners like this should be shown what happens when a horse gets frightened and runs in front of a vehicle, It is people like her who give dogs like mine a bad rep.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top