BIG hoof problems WARNING very long post, sorry

serena2005

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Had the physio out on saturday and she was really concerned about a dip in his hoof, which has been causing him to be lame for... well as long as iv had him (1 year)

she took this picture:

hoof.jpg


and emailed that and a few more pics to a hoof specalist in the USA & Canada, this was their reply:

Hi Serena,
Find below comments from two specialists from USA and Canada that commented on the photos of Herbies feet last night. I hope you can convey these problems to his owner for the sake of the poor horse. Without sorting these feet he will not be sound and will end up crippled. At the end of the day it is as simple as that. See also attached the photo that the first specialist refers to. That is Herbies foot with her comments on it. The second specialist has asked for different photos to be taken in addition to the ones we did yesterday so if you want I can always take more if the owner is willing to try and fix the shoeing job. Any probs give me a call or email me.


I've posted a photo with one possibility for Herbie. I've noted that he has under-run heels and a long toe. The Medial/Lateral balance looks to be off on both front.
When viewing the photo of his sole, one can see the lateral side looks wider than the medial side and he looks to be perhaps trimmed lower on the (lateral) outsides of his feet which will put added pressure on that side.

You might discuss with his farrier the possibility of setting his shoes back so as to begin to correct the broken back hoof/pastern axis as well as addressing the medial/lateral balance. Doing this might well address the flare that you're starting to see as well as the bump on the sole.


One must also wonder if there is an abscess brewing under that bump or indeed, perhaps it is a corn. The farrier should be able to explain this as well.

A horse with extremely pathological feet. He's got very underrun heels, long stretched toes, contracted heels, likely some sort of frog pathology, and nothing about the shoe job is helping to correct any of that. The breakover is way too forward, the nail holes are nowhere near even, the nails look too large for the holes in the shoe, the heel branches are too short, and (depending on how skewed the perspective is) the shoe doesn't even appear to be on straight.

The bump on the sole may be anything from an old bruise, to a build-up of non-shedding sole, to the coffin bone pressing against the sole. Need a better photo set to give a better answer. What's the horse's diet and turnout arrangements?

I know that it's always good to be as discrete as possible dealing with other professionals, but this sort of farrier work isn't able to be tweaked...there' s frankly nothing right about it to start with. I'm all for being polite, but not at the expense of the horse.


iv got her rubbish farrier coming up to "have a look" and it his call wether anything gets done about it, i just know he will say its normal, or something even more stupid!

well done for getting the whole way through and thank you for any replys!
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brightmount

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Totally shocked at those pictures and I think the advice that has been given is spot on.

Personally, I would use an Equine Podiatrist to sort out those feet, but I'm not saying remedial farriery couldn't do a successful job. Setting the shoe back does seem to make sense with feet like this, much as I hate NB.

Good luck
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serena2005

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when i had my farrier shoeing him he started this process, his owner said he couldnt have natural balance, some problem he had years ago and made me change farriers.... i dont know what to do any more, theres no telling his owner, all i can do is give her the information. and give him back
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guisbrogal

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My friends horse has had this EXACT same problem. Incorrect shoeing for at least 8yrs that we know of.
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He had had intermittent lameness for a year or so and then last April he went 'dog' lame. Vet did xrays and scans and found out that his pastern axis was way out and that all the bones in his feet had moved.
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He was on box rest and corrective shoeing (exactly as mentioned.....shoes set back) for 6 months. They very gradually trimmed his feet to the correct shape (using another farrier
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) and he had all sorts of different shoes on including ones with long bars out of the back and rounds. He has gradually become sound again and is on an exercise programme of walking on soft ground. However it looks unlikey that he will ever jump again or do any fast, hard work.
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A dreadful loss of a beautiful horse.
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siennamum

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I'm a bit confused about these pics. Presumably he's not your horse Serena, if that's the case then can you not get the vet involved. These feet are appalling, Is the owner spending money on physios and yet overlooking the probem with her farrier.
Sorry to sound vaugue, but genuinely shocked by the state of this, poor horse.
 

sally2008

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Those feet are in a shockingly bad state - I second what has been said about the distortion. The owner must somehow be made to realise that continuing to have the horse shod in this fashion is effectively crippling it. If it is correctly trimmed and shod with an early breakover shoe, such as NB, and possibly graduated pads to help correct the alignment of the pedal bone it may well be rescued over time but it is likely that significant damage has already been caused. However, if they think this form of treatment is purely going to be "remedial" and then revert to what they consider to be normal shoeing, I really don't fancy his chances of remaining sound, poor bugger.
 

serena2005

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frown.gif
hes been lame on and off for the year iv had him.

no hes not my horse, if he was thsi would be undercontrol by now, she stopped my farrier that was correcting his feet from shoeing him.:(

i just had a phone call from her, hes trimmed the lump on his sole and is coming back to put some pads on it.
i asked about the dip in his hoof and she said that the farrier said hes always had it!!!! SHOCKED what??? i said so he's justing going to leave it???..... phone's ringing!!!


WAAAHHHEEEYYYY shes calling the vet!!
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serena2005

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its a bloody joke... she just called b ack and said she told the vet and after he stopped laughing said "hes a TB and most of the have hoofs like that, he'ss be up on thursday to have a look"

im so angry, i feel like they think im having a laugh, hes going i dont think i can that her crap any more.
 

Doublethyme

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Oh dear, much as I would find it as hard as you obviously do Serena, my gut feeling is "walk away". You have tried to help this poor boy, but are getting it chucked back in your face. So sad, maybe you should consider finding another loan that you can actually help, but I know that it is easier said than done.

How any owner/farrier/vet!!! could possibly think these feet are acceptable makes me sooooo angry and really highlights the major problems we have with the thinking of many professionals in this country on footcare.

An barefoot trimmers get a hard time..........when farriers can get away with doing this sort of atrocious work with the vet supporting!!

Sorry I'm not anti farrier, but it does make me wonder sometimes!
 

Stinkbomb

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OMG is any proffessional dealing with this horse qualified other than the person you got to look at him!! I feel sorry for you in this position and have no answers as what to do next other than admiration for trying to sort it yourself even though its not your horse.
 

juliebrewer

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no foot no horse!!!
My vet told me along time ago that most lameness is due to poorly kept feet over the years. I had a youngster at the time and he needed his feet trimming and shoeing every four weeks. Let it go to 6 weeks and he would start plaiting when he walked and dishing at trot. Kept him well shod and he was straight as a die...
 

loopylucifer

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minw had worse feet than this a year ago!! ( if i could work out how to put the photos in i will) had same farrier for years and they went down hill big style in the last year thanks now to vets and fab new farrier feet are drastically improved and lameness from original problem has vanised for the time being anyway! could you not get the vet to see him? then maybe they could have a word with owner/ farrier about changing something as contiuing like that will result in perment iraversable damage its as simple as that! i understand how difficult it is as i was there but at least it was my horse it must be so much harder when its not urs!
 

serena2005

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well after alot of thinking, and reading this post over and over i called his owner and told her i was not prepared to look after him anymore. she sounded very shocked and diddnt really know what to say.

i went for it then saying how i felt my feeling for the horse wasnt considered and i know that it is her horse but im the one looking after him, and i told her how much i hate her farrier.

so she made me feel really bad saying she doesnt know what shes going to do her daughter had got her cancer op on wednesday how soon did i want him to go, she would have to find him a new home or sell him... thats when i snuck in that the physio said she would offer £800 but owner wants £1200..... thats a joke in its self!!

so i said i wasnt in a rush to get rid of him but its just one thing after another, so she has convinced me to wait untill the vet has been if lameness is a result of bad shoeing im allowed to choose a farrier
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and if its not and vet cant find an answer then he's going, as he obiviously cant cope with working.

oh and another thing... the lump on his sole, farrier popped in to see it, girl on the yard said he was there the amount of time it took her to turn a horse out in to the field, field is a stones throw away! owner rang to say hes cleaned it up, when i looked it didnt look any different! what a joke that farrier is.... god im so angry
 

sally2008

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Well done serena. Perhaps you should send those photographs to the Farriers Registration Council and ask for their opinion - perhaps it's time that concerned individuals used more pester power to get the FRC to take their governing role more seriously, particularly when it comes to continued professional development and the maintenance of standards.
 

airedale

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Serena

get onto the Farriers Registration Council and report this farrier - he deserves to be struck off - I know it won't help the horse - but it might help other horses he's still shoeing !!!! (and those are the ones you don't know about)

The owner should be hauled up for neglect - wait a month until april and the new animal welfare bill comes in and then something legally can be done - ie owner gets done what youare wanting or she CAN be prosecuted - I'd threaten her with the new bill and see what she then has to say - April is only 3 weeks away

poor horse - he doesn't deserve that sort of shoddy shoeing
 

cornwallexracers

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Sorry, but I deal with TB's on a daily basis and yes some of them do have crap feet, but this horses problem is definately the crap farrier IMO. Lets hope you manage to get a farrier of your choice because the one this horses owner is insisting upon must be frigging blind. Well done you for keeping on to her about it though.
 

serena2005

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just reading about making a complaint about the farrier, i need loads of evidence, notes read:
Evidence may be in the form of two identical sets of identified, dated and pertinent photographs, video tapes or x-rays, reports from attending farriers or veterinary surgeons and statements from eye witnesses.

iv only ever taken a few photos.
 

Nailed

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Honest oppinion?
Not that bad really.
The broken back is due to poor shoes/ conformation. The hoof flaring laterally can also be conformational. the heel being set under could also be conformational. I am seeing nothing in this picture which jumps out at me and hits me in the head with a big stamp reading 'shoot it'

Ted's (He is a Thoroughbred Racer) feet are broken backed, he has flare medially and by NOT cutting back the flare and applying a set of fullered concave shoes with the medial heel slightly extended and widened enough support was given to the hoof to allow the foot to begin to correct.

This horse has GOOD feet compared to some of the thinggs i have seen.
Lou x
 

Spot1

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Perhaps this post should be titled " Big owner problem" It can be very difficult to persuade someone that relatively straight forward remedial work could make a big difference, even in a case like this where the horse is lame.
[ QUOTE ]
she just called b ack and said she told the vet and after he stopped laughing said "hes a TB and most of the have hoofs like that, he'ss be up on thursday to have a look"


[/ QUOTE ]
You only have her word that the vet said this, but if it is true and the vet maintains this view after Thursdays visit (hopefully not, but I have experienced something similar) you will find her, along with her farrier and vet, against you.

Perhaps you could have a face to face meeting with the owner, may be where the horse is, asap.

Stay calm but be firm.
State again your concern for the horses welfare.
Make clear that you have sought professional advice.
Do not try to apportion blame
Suggest that this is a specialist remedial farriers job, you could save her a vets bill (You shouldn't need a vet to tell you this horse is badly out of balance) by getting a remedial farrier instead.

Only after you have established a good dialogue, the owners blessing and found someone to do the work can you begin to consider the best treatment, imo some of the suggestions on this post are better than others but it wouldn't take much to make some improvement to this lad.

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April is only 3 weeks away


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I'm hoping this bill will make a difference, we will just have to wait and see.

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You have tried to help this poor boy, but are getting it chucked back in your face

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I know were Doublethyme is coming from
It can be a bit like banging your head against a wall. The best of luck keep us all posted.
 

Spot1

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[ QUOTE ]
have you thought of natural balance shoeing to support the heel

[/ QUOTE ]

There are better options, NB shoeing relies on reducing the leverage of breakover, it would help, but it does not address the primary problem of a broken back hoof pastern axis.
"Support the heel"? how.
 

Doublethyme

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[ QUOTE ]
I am seeing nothing in this picture which jumps out at me and hits me in the head with a big stamp reading 'shoot it'

[/ QUOTE ]
Not the horse maybe, but the farrier.......
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Sorry but I do think there is a huge amount wrong with those pictures, its just that it is so common that many people DON'T think it is abnormal!
 

serena2005

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am seeing nothing in this picture which jumps out at me and hits me in the head with a big stamp reading 'shoot it'

[/ QUOTE ]
Not the horse maybe, but the farrier.......
wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

im not saying hes that bad, it just annoys me that iv had this horse a year which has constantly gone lame on this leg, my farrier was correcting it but she stopped him. he could have been well on his way to having a good set of feet

the farrier that is responsible for his feet now thinks that hes feet are fine. and doesnt see a problem with the way they are.
 

Nailed

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The thing is his feet are fairly fine.. They are not that serious.. the problems with them are not that serious.. I would need to see the hole horse to decide weather it was the farrier who was being wrong or somthing in the horsel.

I know these feet are not 'normal' but what is normal? Ted's feet are normal to him.. But for a dressage horse, his feet would be appauling.

Really, these images are not that bad. The feet do not look in the situatoin of a welfare issue.. the broken back axis can be fixed but a whole new horn growth would be require and this is nine months to a year.. Its a long haul issue.
Lou x
 
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