Big young horse, and bit to sit her up?

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showjump

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Hi guys i have lurked a lot of late, and not posted at all.

My mare i bred is now 5, shes big and long, shes getting on well schooling wise and i don't find her too big to ride (im only 5ft2) as i thought i would do.
Now shes just started bsja, and this seems to have unraveled some problems. Shes bold and brave and not phased by much, shes happily popping round but tires very fast. Last weekend she had a cricket score as gets herself in too close and just kept tapping poles off, half of me thinks the jumps are too small for her to make a real shape over, she had also schooled over the same course 2 days prior. So we worked on grids and placing poles pulled out, which has helped her.
This weekend we did another bnovice, she jumped clear first round and in second phase had two down. She all of a sudden went heavy in my hands and tired resulting in two fences. Shes also getting time faults in first phase but im not overly concerned about those now, she only has one speed bless her!
Now apart from her getting stronger and fitter over time, i wondered if theres such a bit to help sit her up? Not a strong bit but something that may help me to help her?

Thanks for reading my rabble!
 
What need is there for a different bit? She went heavy in your hands and had two fences down because she was tired so IMO its down to fitenss and not a quick fix with abit change
 
Yes i agree with what your saying however that is not going to come overnight. My thinking was to bit to help us out until she comes stronger and fitter. I have left her to mature till now, i do not warm her up too much (so not to take too much out of her) but she needs to be out competing. I doubt theres a bit suitable to do the job hence the post asking the question..
 
THe NS elevators are quite good for this - you could always put some little roundings on if its a bit strong for her and slacken off the curb strap?
 
Thanks EVS wil have a look at one, my other mare (her mum) goes in a two ring gag happy mouth was thinking of trying her in that as mild mouthpiece but leverage action.
 
showjump said:
Yes i agree with what your saying however that is not going to come overnight. My thinking was to bit to help us out until she comes stronger and fitter. I have left her to mature till now, i do not warm her up too much (so not to take too much out of her) but she needs to be out competing. I doubt theres a bit suitable to do the job hence the post asking the question..
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How impatient you sound!

Sorry, but get her to the right fitness levels first and then start competing her; don't take short cuts on which is the most important time for your young horse; it will pay dividends in the end and for her future soundness. If you're not prepared to put the time in now then you'll get the horse in trouble both mentally and physically.
 
showjump said:
Yes i agree with what your saying however that is not going to come overnight. My thinking was to bit to help us out until she comes stronger and fitter. I have left her to mature till now, i do not warm her up too much (so not to take too much out of her) but she needs to be out competing. I doubt theres a bit suitable to do the job hence the post asking the question..
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Why?
 
I would compete only as much as she can manage and make sure my training at home was increasing her physical strength, balance and coordination and therefore improving her self carriage
Your right there's no bit that will do that .
 
Hell I now know why I don't post any more. She is in full work since this time last year, she is not unfit as such, she is a large mare and so get tired due to her size and age. I am continuing to build her fitness ad strength but not sure what you all suggest.. wait 18 months hacking and schooling only before she goes out competing, then she will be well behind others her age, and be green as wont have have any competition experience? I don't see how a b.nov every few weekends is doing her any harm.
Sorry if you all think im some horrid owner trying to get my young horse going and improving month by month. I was asking if there was a bit that may help her and me if she does get tired mid course esp in two phase when a baby is asked to jump 14 fences in one go. She is willing to work, loves to jump just lacks the stamina esp at shows when there much going on, shes also a very laid back mare and not naturally forward.
 
If she becomes so tired then TBTH, she just isn't mature enough to cope with what you are asking of her, both mentally and physically.
Different horses and breeds mature at different levels of time; what one 4 year old can do and cope with will be totally out of the reach of others, you need to adapt to the horse in front of you, I'm sorry if you think that's having a go.
 
Who has said you are a horrible owner ? I ( can't speak for the others ) simply don't see how when you clearly know that it muscle weakness that causes the issues you think putting a 'bigger' bit in a horses mouth will help her muscles to be stronger and have appropriate stamina .
People can express a view that is not what you want to hear without having any desire to be horrible to you.
 
generally im not fluffy at all, and certainly my (now 2yo) will be in work as late 3yo and aimed at 4yo classes BUT NO bit will help with tiredness and if you hold the front end up the tiredness will only affect her in another way-she could end up having a nasty fall/fright due to her reactions slowing as she gets fatigued......

.....is it worth lameing her for?.....................no,thought not......................just keep going and jumping 1 round even if you go clear until she is stronger.
 
Shes 5 years old not 4, so i have taken things slowly with her for those exact reasons i knew she would be slower maturing.
I didn't mean for it to sound as if i want a 'bigger' bit in her mouth, i think i stated that id think all the bits that may help would be too strong for her. I would of course stop riding her if i thought she was too tired to jump or going to damage herself. It perhaps sounded worse than she was and i will continue getting her out and about to baby classes and built her up slowly. Thanks
 
if she goes from jumping clear to dropping on her head and having 2 down-thats her telling you she's too tired.

there will of course come a point that she has to slowly work past this in order to build up true competition fitness but i dont think i would be pushing that yet tbh.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
if she goes from jumping clear to dropping on her head and having 2 down-thats her telling you she's too tired.

there will of course come a point that she has to slowly work past this in order to build up true competition fitness but i dont think i would be pushing that yet tbh.
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I agree with this. How much flat work do you do with her? Or should I say, how much flat work specifically designed to build core fitness do you do with her? Does she go to the gallops at all?

I know she's five, but being a big mare she will take longer to get really fit and strong. Please don't rush her.

P
 
Yes i agree with you on what your saying, think it was unfortunate it was a two phase a jump off may of suited her as she could of had a rest between jumping the shortened course. Not that i would have pushed her, it just all experience she needs. On the video she looks to continue the same but from being sat on board i felt the power drain and her become heavy.
 
I think what you describe is just typical of baby horses to be honest.

I have a four year old (late foal), who I backed at 3 and then hacked at weekends through the winter 2013/2014. She was brought into proper work as a four year old this Spring, built up to jumping a couple of British Novice's this summer. She jumped some rounds fab & others she had an absolute cricket score as she knee'd them out in front due to tiring. She is a very clean and honest mare so I knew this wasn't her, she simply was not strong/fit enough - so I knocked the SJ on the head for now & have done lots of other things since. Took her cubbing three times this August/September plus a hunter trial. She has just been out 'proper' hunting on Saturday for opening meet and spent 6 hours out and still came home full of running. I think it's very important to introduce variety, and not put so much pressure on yourself/the horse, - they are all very different. You say your mare is big, big horses don't mature until a lot later - and if she is of warmblood ilk, which I very much suspect she is, her mental age is probably a few years behind aswell.

I wouldn't panic... If you want my advice I definitely wouldn't be putting more metal in her mouth. Get her canter and flatwork balanced and in tune, introduce a bit of variety and have some fun with her. Take the pressure off you both - no horse needs to be out competing, you will only ruin her and your confidence if you push her before she's ready.

Good luck
 
First of all - massive well done on going clear in the first round. Such a big improvement on the weekend before so thats great!! As you say, it just sounds like she got a bit tired and heavy in 2nd phase and i am sure that will improve with flatwork and fitness. What bit do you ride her in at the minute? Sorry if you've said it already and i've missed it. I think the question is - how does she feel in that bit when she isn't tired? If you don't feel its quite right then maybe a change would help. If its only when she's tired you feel like this then you probably don't need to change. I have tried an NS elevator and didn't find it much use if i'm honest.

Other than doing all the flatwork, the best thing i have found in the moment they get heavy is to lift the hand and put the leg on, wait for them to raise the head and then put hand back down again, repeat as necessary.

I really don't think there is anything wrong with you going out competing her as a 5 year old - she needs to get out there now and get experience. It sounds like it was a good experience for her on Saturday! Shows often tire them more than being at home so the only reason they learn and get better is to be out there. I bet you will be surprised how quickly she improves over the next month or so just from getting the experience.
 
Her flatwork is good now, was 2nd and 4th in her first ever dressage comps. Im def going to keep her work varied, had also thought about taking her to the local gallops too, and poss so little xc fences. I think most young horses are hit and miss, one day they feel great the other your left wondering what happened. Shes currently in a fulmer snaffle, but she had a fulmer snaffle with loose rings which she really like and unfortunately it snapped last week and i need to order a replacement. Shes not strong, and i will def try to lift the hand and more left and release like you describe SN.
Shes fine at home, but like mentioned competition tire them quicker so that's something i need to consider with her.
 
So you've agreed that the problem is that she goes heavy because she's not fit enough. How is changing the bit going to miraculously either make her fitter, or make her suddenly able to jump clear anyway?!
 
[deleted user] said:
So you've agreed that the problem is that she goes heavy because she's not fit enough. How is changing the bit going to miraculously either make her fitter, or make her suddenly able to jump clear anyway?!
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Why does there ALWAYS have to be some sort of snotty undertone to people's comments/replies on this forum? I just don't understand it, you don't seem to get this anywhere else but on H&H? How is your response helpful at all? The OP is asking for advice, probably something she wishes she hadn't now after responses like this.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, why post?
 
I have no problem with taking her out and competing her a little bit, but you need to accept that as a young horse, she'll get tired and drop poles until her fitness does get there, and manage your expectations of her performance. As long as you aren't really overdoing it then it probably is good for her to get out and about, but you just can't expect her to perform like she is super fit if she isn't - you've noted that she's a slow maturer, so just pace yourself accordingly and hopefully she'll get there.

But this doesn't sound anything like a bitting issue, she just needs time and good work, and unfortunately there aren't any shortcuts around that.
 
I simply would not do the jump off if she where mine .
But them I was always preparing for eventing where the clear round is all and you never want to put them in a situation where they lose their jump.
 
Supanova said:
- she needs to get out there now and get experience.
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Why?

Dealers need to get horses competing to make them worth more money.

Some very nervy/spooky horses settle when you show them that the world is bigger than they realised.

Other than that, what is this 'need' for any horse, five or twenty five, to be out competing?
 
showjump said:
I was asking if there was a bit that may help her and me if she does get tired mid course esp in two phase when a baby is asked to jump 14 fences in one go.
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I think you've kind of answered your own question there - she's a (big) baby and you're asking a lot of her. I'm sorry you've had some sharp answers on here but from my long-term lurking I think the general feeling across the forum is that gadgets / short term fixes don't work in any scenario, and I think other posters are just trying to say that you're much better off putting in the work now, even if it takes longer and means you're not out competing at the level you might like to be. If she's telling you she's tired, maybe retire rather than let her get a cricket score, and possibly a scare that will put her off?

I'm no expert but maybe take her down a level, or don't do the second round until she's stronger and confident. She'll likely be the better horse for it in the long run.
 
If she's a "big" mare then chances are even though you've waited until she's 5, she won't be fully mature until she's 7 or 8. Unfortunately sometimes you do just have to wait and give them the time they need.
 
showjump said:
Hell I now know why I don't post any more. She is in full work since this time last year, she is not unfit as such, she is a large mare and so get tired due to her size and age. I am continuing to build her fitness ad strength but not sure what you all suggest.. wait 18 months hacking and schooling only before she goes out competing, then she will be well behind others her age, and be green as wont have have any competition experience? I don't see how a b.nov every few weekends is doing her any harm.
Sorry if you all think im some horrid owner trying to get my young horse going and improving month by month. I was asking if there was a bit that may help her and me if she does get tired mid course esp in two phase when a baby is asked to jump 14 fences in one go. She is willing to work, loves to jump just lacks the stamina esp at shows when there much going on, shes also a very laid back mare and not naturally forward.
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Maybe you don't have to stop competing, and it's not about only hacking or schooling, because jumping uses different muscles. My horse was very fit and getting ridden 6 times a week in the summer, but she tired very easily when jumping because I just didn't do it enough.
 
cptrayes said:
Why?

Dealers need to get horses competing to make them worth more money.

Some very nervy/spooky horses settle when you show them that the world is bigger than they realised.

Other than that, what is this 'need' for any horse, five or twenty five, to be out competing?
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Im sorry but this is a stupid thing to post (esp in competing and training section), i own horses to compete them that is what i enjoy. I simply would not get the real enjoyment out of owning a horse i just hacked out or the like at home, i enjoy the show prep and shows seeing them change and success if it comes. So your statement about whats the need for a horse to be competing five or twenty five is your opinion. I am not a dealer i bred her myself and have no plans to sell her at the minute, but things change and the reality is if she never competes (as your suggesting) then she would presumably never sell, as if you read other threads on here horses lacking competition records are worthless. If you had your way she would end up as a 10 year old mare thats not been out competing? Dont get it at all.
Anyway thanks for those who replied, and yes i may well of answered my own post. This is not a bitting issue, i need to let her mature and improve with more time and more mini pony parties to let her see and ENJOY the wide world!
 
OP , I think it helps to think about how to solve this issue in a targeted way .
You need to increase the strength and stamina of the horses muscles.
And you need to look to it's wind fitness so the muscles can get the oxygen to 'feed ' the muscles during work .
So I would looking to my flat work training roultine and taking advice from my trainer on this and involving my physio ( mines great in this area ) to tailor the work to be really effective using pole work and grids as part of the mix .
I would also be working in some canter work on hills to develop the horses wind .

And of course you can go to the shows , have a day out enjoy yourself meet your friends eat unsuitable fast food the whole thing just learn from that day and don't jump that extra round that pushes too far .
 
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