Bill Levetts comments on EWW

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Just reading Bills diary and he has made some comments about Ollie really pushing his horses and will the young ones be sound at Intermediate level.

Is this just because he is winning everything?

Or does he really un-necesarily push his horses at a young age?
 
Ah that is interesting. I think in general, not at all specific to ollie, i think that young horses are expected to do too much. My friend Rosanna crossley is on the british junior team, and her horse is 12 - shes had it for a while and taken it slowly, built him up the levels slowly and not rushed him and i really think thats the way to do it.
Rock is 6now and so many people say 'are you not at novice yet?' and i'm just like, well no, in 6years time he could well be a nice advanced horse, why spoil him now?
Just my thoughts, i think young horses are asked to do too much too soon.
Obviously though it also depends on the horse, some horses are up for the challenge younger than others, where as horses like Rock, are very sensitive and need their confidence built up slowly.
Just my view and like i said not specific to ollie
 
Its a problem that occurs with many event riders. A lot of the young riders, with large strings of horses, push them hard to get the wins in etc, but often these horses, even though they may have potential, don't make it all the way because they break down.

It is also a probloem with owned horses, the owners want winds, and the riders don't always worry too much if the horse breaks down, its not their problem. These riders, because they appear to win lots, can always fill a stable once the broken horse is taken away.
 
I can believe it. I think it was mentioned by someone else not long ago.

He seems to have horses coming out of his ears.

I had a training session with him a while ago and watched him at Your Horse Live - i thoroughly enjoyed both, i really liked how he taught, his principles and approaches were good.

But i do think that his horses are rush, and even his older horses are ridden unneccesarily fast on hard ground just to pick up first prize. Where others took it slowly on the hardening ground he was coming home wiht only a handful of seconds over the Opt time.
 
I think it depends on the horse to a major extent.

Some young horses take to it like a duck to water and really need very little preparation to get up to Novice level. Others just take a bit longer to mature (physically or mentally). There is no 'right' way to do it.

Equally a speedy little TB can cruise along at Novice speed where a heavier horse may need to work a bit harder to do the same thing. Bear in mind that firmer ground is faster. It is hard to judge how hard a rider was pushing XC on their time alone.

I think Bill Levett probably has a point, but I'm sure there is another equally valid side to the debate.
 
Its not just particular to eventing- I hate seeing young horses being pushed in any discipline! It appears lots of people dont realise most horses (incl. TBs) dont reach skeletal maturity until 6 +.
 
Hurrah for someone speaking out at last is what I say!

There seem to be far too many young horses being pushed too far, too fast, these days and if BE isn't careful, that will be throwing off the wrong kind of image, especially to casual enthusiasts; nobody likes to see horses pushed too hard.

While I accept, riders have a duty to their owners, many of whom haven't sat on a horse in their life (but it is almost more fashionable to have an eventer now instead of the original status symbol of a racehorse) so they have no idea of it's limitations, especially if young. The riders, especially the young thrusters, need to be made aware how ugly and unnecessary, this sort of thing looks. Perhaps it is time for BE to do something about it, possibly by limiting the amount of runs a horse might have in any one season. I'm sure there must be something they can and should do for the sake of the horses. What do you knowledgable folks think?
 
silly mare makes several good points but i think that riders should be very careful before critising the others. Bill may well have a point but i dont think his record for keeping horses on the road is particularly fantastic compared to anyone else's and worse than some. no one would be bitching at oli if he was a hunting maniac hunting his animals three times a fortnight which is quite conmon practice and includes much hammering down roads and hard tracks as well as galloping through plough etc etc. if your horses are fit well properly prepared and ridden in a balanced fashion there is no reason why they shouldnt run once a week at novice level.
oli is under pressure to achieve from owners sponsors and BE as part of their world class squad and people know wnhat they are getting whenn they send horses there. Piggy is just as competitive but i havent noticed anyone giving her a hard time and she wins plenty classes.
i am sure oli breaks a fewbut what you really need to see is the PERCENTAGE of these compared to the amount of rides he has. Bill levett probably has half the amount of rides, virtually nothing at Adv level still has had a few injuries etc along the way as well as horses that just werent good enough, tempermentally unsuited or physically lacking to do the job. Give oli a break, he doing his best to please a great many differnt factions.

Rant over!!
 
I dont think its so much about runs though, cos providing the ground isnt too hard I plan on running my 5yr old PN all year, doing 2 or 3 events a month, I think its more about how they are pushed to try and win, and pushed fast on hard ground
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that may be right but if you ride forward, balanced and the horses are well schooled and ridden in good ryhtmn then you save up to half a second at every fence. consequently you will always appear to be ragging it even when the horse is actually working wellwithin itself. Francis whittington, sir percival, case in point.
 
It is true and totally here what youre saying Lucretia. I guess at the moment all everyone can see is the Ollie and Piggy show, their names head the top of every leader board atm.

Thing is, it only human nature.. I think we used to all say it about Pippa and William look at all the horses they had at one time, it got boring because it was always *them* winning.
Now we have the likes of Ollie and Piggy doing well - but they have vast amounts of horses.
How many of us can say we had 10 horses running at one event? and then for Ollie to have 9 placings out of those 10 - thats no mean feat!

We also forget that eventing for the likes of Ollie *is* his main income. So the more horses that win or do well for him means *money* be it through sponsorship, owners sending him more horses or selling the horse for huge amounts of money.

Most of us on here know that if our horse stops up half way through the season thats it for us, he have no other horse to fall back on.

So we tend to see it from a different point of view.
 
well said Vicky. i think the green eyed monster has alot to do with this sort of comment, no matter how apparently 'tactful and welll put' the comments are.
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Green eyed monster from Bill?

I agree slightly which is why I asked if this is true or is it just cos he is winning everything that this is being said.
 
WFP made a similar comment in H&H though about it. Think his was a wait and see.
I think all top riders have to be tough and run them pretty often - If you read PF book schooling the young horse all the horses featured are either dead or retired due to injury and that book was not written all that long ago.

Also last year Bill Levett had a PN horse in my section in September and it had already run 14 times in a very short space of time at 5 years old and ended the season running 18 times. Me thinks pot kettle black.
 
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lso last year Bill Levett had a PN horse in my section in September and it had already run 14 times in a very short space of time at 5 years old and ended the season running 18 times. Me thinks pot kettle black.

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Yep Kitty also runs her horses around 15-20 times a season.

But its not just pros that do it. I average on 12 events a season, mainly because i cannot afford to run anymore than that.

I read somewhere that Karen Dixon would run between 12-15 events a season with her young horses.

There are many top eventers who run their horses more in the spring and autumn missing out the summer season all-together - which makes sense. Athough it might look like they are ragging it entering one event after another they actually have a break when the ground is like rock. Thats what i wanted to do and go Sjing on a surface during the summer.

Some of these top riders now have stable jockeys to run the younger less experinced horses for them.

PMSL yes Lec, i have that book and there arent many horses left are there.... but i do think thats luck of the draw, a few of them had accidents in the field or were pts due to colic.
 
another well said. as it happens i am not oli's greatest fan (really!) but he is still young and sadly for him unlike when WFP and BL were his age the media opportunities we have now make this sort of comment available to a much wider audience and is much more open to misinterpretation. i would also like to see the original comment in full though as well as i am not a member of EWW. As for WFP, he is another who is not afraid of winning on his young horses but he has got plenty that carry on indefinately though they may have had injuries along the way. otherwise lec wouldnt have had to ask yesterday how many PN's could a person win before being out of the class!!
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Can someone post the comments on here? Like to see.

Recently went to a demo that Oli was at - he rode a young horse - to say I wasn't impressed is putting it mildly.
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Really
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i thought he rode snoopy really well...
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Green eyed monster from Bill?

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I can't believe that!! BL is such a nice guy, doesn't seem the type to get jealous and we've already established its not the amount of runs but the way they are run!
 
Am I allowed to post the comments? As you have to pay to be a member of EWW.

I spose am im a member it wont hurt
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Will post in a min
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V - I can only comment on what I saw in front of me
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I know you got a lot out of your lesson and the horse went really well. Some horses go better for different sorts of riders, and riders benefit from different teaching styles.
I can only say that I would never go for a lesson with him even if I was paid to do so, and he wouldn't ride my horse if someone put a gun to my head - but as I say it is a very personal opinion and formed totally on what I saw first hand. It is not to say that anyone else is wrong - and I include you in that. Everyone has different views/opinions of most of the top riders based on our own experiences. I'm sure I hold some in high regard that others on here would ridicule
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echo this statement. I guess its experience and some things you come across or see happening. I'm sure its the same with every professional.
 
i just dont understand why BL or WFP or whoever feels the need to make this sort of comment in public. OT may do many things wrong but i fail to see why he provkes such a response from his peers when as we have said other people run theirs just as hard, they just dont win so often! i hate to point out the obvious but maybe lois win more because they also do a decent test AND showjump efficiently.
And as for riders and 'bad luck' well certain people seeem to have more than others and when exactly does 'bad luck' stop and 'bad horsemanship' start? How many disaters constitute 'bad luck' exactly? And how is that some people, mary King would be one, dont seem to have much?
 
I'm sure you right...

I was just pondering over why Bill/WFP would have said that, tbh they are the ones competing at that level so guess thats why Bill and WFP have formed those opinions. Maybe they know more than we do.
I'm afraid some people do have more bad luck than others. Thats just life I guess.
 
I saw him at Poplar park last year and he was extremely rough with his horse at the dressage stage - before AND after the test - not to mention extrememly rude to its owner...

He isnt my cup of tea but then he seems to get results....
 
I'm of the opinion that horses wont run well unless theyre comfortable and happy, to repeatedly get double clears must mean they are at least willing to work for him as p*ssed off horses tend to flatten sjs!

I wouldnt choose to run my horses that often but if it gets results and thats what the owners want....
 
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