Billy Stud - next Schockemöhle Yard?

LEC

LEC

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With the success in the Queen Elizabeth Cup at Hickstead just wondering if in the next 10 years the Billy Stud will be as much of a force as Paul Schockemöhle yard was in the 80s/90s with riders such as Ludger Beerbaum and Frankie Sloothaak coming out of the yard on some incredible horses.

They also seem to be pretty impressive in the eventing as well but probably helped by having a rider the caliber of Pippa Funnell producing them.
 
I think the horses will be definitely be worth watching out for. Im sure I heard the commentator on sky sports covering the Royal International mention that they have over 100 horses I was shocked must be a very busy yard.

Was also nice to see one of theirs win the Queen Elizabeth cup definitley raises the profile for the stud anyway and nice for Dan to get the ride.
 
No.
The Schockemöhle stud has a reputation of breeding nothing but quality on almost every discipline circuit.
When people think of Schockemöhle, they think of world class quality (after they stop flailing about how the mean old Germans stole Toto from ikkle Edward). The lines they produce aren't repeated in the same way British horses are bred. The stock are rarely line bred and if they are then it's kept to a minimum.
Schockemöhle stock are pure quality through and through.

When people think of The Billy Stud, most of the time it just has a reputation of covering 2 year old fillies and hoping they don't die giving birth at a mere 3 years old.
I don't doubt they breed quality competition horses. They have good stock and good lines. Backed by the most famous international riders of course.
But that's all they'll ever be compared to something as big as the Schockemöhle empire.

I am bias, very bias, maybe a bit too bias. But that's just how I feel.
 
It is a very impressive set up - I visited the yard that is run by Donal a couple of years ago when I was looking for a young horse.

It was immaculate - horses everywhere you looked :eek:
 
You say that but PS has been doing it for many years now and due to being based in East Germany has perhaps thousands of acres to run mares plus they are barn stalled during the winter ( a whole other debate!). Billy Stud has been doing it what 10 years?

I have seen many many Z horses who come from PS who are not quality.
 
Having visited P S's yard I can assure you that he too puts 2 yr olds in foal , common practice on the continent. Rumour has it that any sub standard stock are put down.
 
Agree - not knocking what PS has achieved but I think the Billy Stud has come an awfully long way in a relatively short period of time. Good forward thinking for top riders to breed and produce on their own stock. 100 horses were mentioned but I "think" you will find SJ) and the youngstock is elsewhere?

And it is really good to see a good breeding programme taking off - we are seeing more and more coming through (OK smaller but same concept- with Mary King and Oliver T also doing it.
 
christine48 said:
Having visited P S's yard I can assure you that he too puts 2 yr olds in foal , common practice on the continent. Rumour has it that any sub standard stock are put down.
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Most studs do this it is the only way to keep up your standards and not letting the inferior animals get into the wrong hands were do you think the failures from the Billy stud end up,If you think they dont breed rubbish on occasions you are deluded.
Paul has been successfully breeding top horses for years on a gigantic scale that a lot of people on here would be shocked by .The Billy stud are just trying to use the same formula.
As for the argument about breeding from 2yo mares what really is the problem as long as it is done cautiously by people who know what their doing ,I personally have bred several foals from 3yo mares(at foaling)and they invariably have less problems than older mares.
 
They are no where near the scale of PS yet but they are certainly developing a good reputation for good results! Yes helped by pippa and William at the helm backing /producing wise but they wouldn't be consistently producing the results they are if the horses weren't good.

As for putting 2yo fillies in foal every big stud does. Norm for course they are put in foal at 2 weaned at three and then they are broken and assessed with their foals. Some stay as broodmares if foal is of sufficient quality some are sold on as ridden horses, those with star potential are treated as such.

And as for the not so good foals I've seen some positively awful PS Z horses, as in really shocking. Interestingly enough seen a fair few in uk so wo der if several shipped here where slightly clueless people pay blind for the breeding ignoring the fact it's conformation is worse than your average seaside donkey!!! But you will always get dome not so good horses no matter how good a breeding programme is. Same with any animal humans included you can have two genetically perfect parents but a genetically imperfect offspring!
 
I was struck at hickstead when i went in both june meet and now how many billy horses were there every single one immaculately turned out and virtually everyone so calm they were having little naps! I am off to do work experience there this year and very excited really looks to be a yard with promise think that in time they will be even bigger...
 
They've got a long way to go before they are the size of the Schockemohle operation...if indeed they ever want to be. They certainly breed a lot of good horses though....as do a number of our other studs in the same area....Old Lodge and Brendon Stud being two others of serious note.

All large breeding opetations will produce their fair share of duds. It's simply a numbers game. The key to building a reputation though is in making sure the rubbish doesn't get out into the market....or at least not with any record of attachment to your stud....
 
The Billy stud has certainly grown in profile over the last couple of years as some of the initial stock come to the fore and produce the goods. There will always be ' waste' in any large breeding operation tbh but remember their waste is probably our smart all rounder, not everyone wants a horse capable of Grand Prix level.

To me its not just about the horses on the ground but its almost a training academy for any young person serious about their jumping and wanting to make a living out of it. All should do work experience and working pupil status in a stud / yard like this as it will give them a hugely rounded experience covering not just the running of a business, but the breeding side and having a large selection of good quality horses on which to learn, compete and achieve on. Access to top training and a large base of customers can only be a good thing.

I cannot see much value in a committed youngster being on a yard with a couple of horses going to small scale shows and not much else as their experiences will be limited.
 
"The key to building a reputation though is in making sure the rubbish doesn't get out into the market....or at least not with any record of attachment to your stud...."

Absolutely. This is where the likes of Pembers Hills Stud (Carnaval Drum) and Landford Common Stud (Fleetwater Opposition) have slipped. Carnaval Drum was so popular in the beginning that the area was saturated with "Carnaval" prefixed horses, very few of which were any good. Carnavelly, Carnaval Path (?) and Carnaval Spirit were the superstars that made it, and I think their talent came more from the damline. In my opinion, Carnaval Drum was prostituted to any mare regardless of type, performance or suitability and subsequently there is a whole lot of Carnaval Crap around that has completely devalued the stallion. I for one wouldn't go near a Carnaval Drum horse because the prefix screams careless.

Likewise there was a time when if you saw a horse with the Z suffix, you knew it would be a bit special, however since Zangersheide have become a studbook, there are thousands of Z horses, many of whom are mediocre, and having a Zangersheide horse is no longer an assurance of excellence.

Providing the Billy Stud only allow horses that they have bred to be named "Billy Whatever", and do not allow random mare-owners who fancy a bit of Billy Congo with their happy hacker, to name their stock Billy X, this should maintain the quality - like a designer label: if every Tom, Dick and Harry is wearing Chanel, it becomes less exclusive: a bit like Daniellea Westbrook in Burberry. I know of one breeder who has a Billy Be Cool foal, out of a proven mare, yet is not allowed to name her foal Billy x, which is the way it should be to protect the stud name.

I remember a few years ago, Landford Common Stud would buy up homebred Fleetwater Opposition horses to prevent the stallion's name being associated with rubbish. A very different situation to that in Europe, where youngstock that do not meet certain specifications are culled in order to prevent the stallion/stud being asscociated to mediocrity.

I don't think thet this country will ever have a stud farm that will give Shockemole a run for his money. This to do with government attitudes towards horses and farming as much as anything. The Billy Stud, Old Lodge, and one or two others will be successful providing they do not compromise themselves - Carnaval Drum is a classic example of what not to do - but never a threat to Shockemole.
 
But it is a fine line between making a stud commercially viable and retaining quality. In order to get the reputation for breeding excellence you need one or two absolute star performers but in between getting that and the good mares there will inevitably be some mediocre horses that are bred to or that are born.

Also sometimes you need to take a risk especially on an unproven stallion. Cevin Z has been a stallion for a long time now but its only now his progeny are really coming to the forefront.
 
Santa_Claus said:
They are no where near the scale of PS yet but they are certainly developing a good reputation for good results! Yes helped by pippa and William at the helm backing /producing wise but they wouldn't be consistently producing the results they are if the horses weren't good.

As for putting 2yo fillies in foal every big stud does. Norm for course they are put in foal at 2 weaned at three and then they are broken and assessed with their foals. Some stay as broodmares if foal is of sufficient quality some are sold on as ridden horses, those with star potential are treated as such.

And as for the not so good foals I've seen some positively awful PS Z horses, as in really shocking. Interestingly enough seen a fair few in uk so wo der if several shipped here where slightly clueless people pay blind for the breeding ignoring the fact it's conformation is worse than your average seaside donkey!!! But you will always get dome not so good horses no matter how good a breeding programme is. Same with any animal humans included you can have two genetically perfect parents but a genetically imperfect offspring!
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Same with any animal humans included you can have two genetically perfect parents but a genetically imperfect offspring!



I got 2 of those in my family!!!
 
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