Bit and bridle

[windand rain]

Just been to a talk about bitting and bridle fit so as a matter of curiosity how many people have their Bridle/bit fit checked as regularly as the saddle. It was interesting to hear some of the questions from the audience based on those it would seem it is as important if not more so to have a bridle fit checked than the saddle fit. Do most people buy off the shelf bridles and expect them to fit or buy/build bespoke bridles for thier horses

 

[Wheels]

I have bought off the peg bridles, made to measure and buying individual pieces. When I've bought off the peg I usually end up having to buy a larger browband at a later date.

I don't tend to have the bridle fitted as I know how to do it myself but there's no harm in anyone asking their trainer or saddle fitter to give their bridle the once over.

 

[stormox]

Bridles are more adjustable than saddles so I would expect most horse owners would know how to fit a bridle correctly and be able to do so.

 

[ihatework]

Anyone with half a brain and a bit of knowledge can fit a bridle, it’s not rocket science.

I buy good quality bridles off the peg, but will mix & match parts to get the right fit

 

[vmac66]

I buy off the peg bridles but always need a bigger browband.

 

[Nudibranch]

I buy off the peg but usually end up mixing and matching - browbands are nearly always too small, longer reins, larger noseband or whatever. I wouldn't dream of paying for someone to check it though...it's really not difficult. I can see why checking bitting is more useful but I've been around long enough to have a decent grasp of mouth conformation and have a silly number of bits from over the years. For a particularly tricky horse I'd use a bit bank but would be unlikely to pay for fitting.

 

[holeymoley]

Off the peg bridles don’t fit my guy at all I normally have to buy separate parts. The closest I got to being an acceptable fit was a full size ascot bridle but had to buy separate cheek pieces in pony size! Shame as I have my eye on a PE bridle that is lush

 

[oldie48]

I now take bitting as seriously as getting the correct fitting for a saddle. yes i can fit a bridle but I see loads of people out with brow bands that are too small and that are causing restriction behind the ears and buckles that are over the sensitive areas of the horses face, so clearly not everyone can. Bitting is a different matter and with my level of experience I am happy to pay a suitably qualified person to assess the conformation of my horses mouth and recommend a suitable bit.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Made to measure.
I ask an instructor to check it every month or so (a second pair of eyes sometimes sees something I don't)

The bit is a little more difficult. He is 7.25" and wears a 7.5" because bits in his size aren't common. We have bit guards. He doesn't need more than a snaffle. To put his bridle on I simply hold the bit out in front of him and he takes it. If he's uncomfortable for any reason he won't take it from me.

He is supernumery so sees the EDT a every 6 months.

 

[windand rain]

This is kind of the answers I expected to be honest. I would hope most people would know how to fit a bridle but in fact the majority don't know. Don't know which bit is best for their horse and don't know which noseband add least pressure to the horse, Don't know the affects the bit on the horses mouth and particularly instuctors dont know how to fit a bridle with a certain bit. I was astonished at the fairly large audience and the surprise they showed when the person in question pointed out the reviewed studies that demonstrated how much the general horse population don't know about the tack they use. An example is that the simple cavesson noseband places more pressure on the horse than the rider in a saddle when fitted the way most people do.
I will add he wasn't there to sell any bits or bridles

 

[Wheels]

An example is that the simple cavesson noseband places more pressure on the horse than the rider in a saddle when fitted the way most people do.

What does this mean? sorry - i don't get it

 

[J&S]

Would you be able to explain about the cavesson please?

 

[windand rain]

Not easy to explain but in general a cavesson fitted without the ability to put two fingers sideways on the bridge of the nose between the nose bone and noseband exerts as much pressure on the nosebone as a rider sitting on a saddle places on the horses back. Hence the need to make sure the bridle fits well. Pressure on the poll is decreased rather than increased by usng a hanging cheek ring arrangement. so lots of complete opposites. The cavesson is the worst pressure nosebad when fitted too tight and the grackle especially the mexican one with rings is the one with least pressure. I learned loads but I think just getting the right person to check it out would be way forward. The person doing the talk was a qualified saddle fitter but rarely fots saddles now concentrating on bridles and bits. You have to undersstand this is what I garnered from the talk along with other bits and pieces I knew and a lot of things I thought I knew but were totally the wrong way round. I htink possibly the idea of having a bridle fitter checking is as necessary as the dentist and saddle fitter after all a saddle is also a simple piece of kit without many moving parts

 

[holeymoley]

Would assume op means that there’s a lot of facial nerves and getting the wrong fit with a simple cavesson noseband(it’s a simple noseband compared to a flash,drop etc) could cause a lot of pressure and discomfort to the horse.

 

[Surbie]

I don't know anything about bits or bridle fitting.

I had someone come out to check my loan horse's bridle and bit last month. Turns out his browband was way too small but the rest of it is ok.

It was fascinating to learn more about bits and I am both going to get him a made to measure bridle and make sure I get to grips with how they should fit.

I should add the old browband never went back on and he had a new one asap. It's 20.5 inches and looks like a 70s alice band, but he is not pinched anymore. And I have a new bit.

 

[J&S]

Well, of course if it was fitted incorrectly. As a young rider (60 odd years ago!!) we were taught how to fit with two fingers in the nose band when it was done up, and three in the throat lash. I imagined you were going to tell us that this had all changed!!

 

[Leo Walker]

Well, of course if it was fitted incorrectly. As a young rider (60 odd years ago!!) we were taught how to fit with two fingers in the nose band when it was done up, and three in the throat lash. I imagined you were going to tell us that this had all changed!!

Me too! Fitting a cavesson correctly isnt rocket science. The same with the hanging cheek. I'd love to know who started the nonsense about poll pressure!

 

[Mule]

Not easy to explain but in general a cavesson fitted without the ability to put two fingers sideways on the bridge of the nose between the nose bone and noseband exerts as much pressure on the nosebone as a rider sitting on a saddle places on the horses back. Hence the need to make sure the bridle fits well. Pressure on the poll is decreased rather than increased by usng a hanging cheek ring arrangement. so lots of complete opposites. The cavesson is the worst pressure nosebad when fitted too tight and the grackle especially the mexican one with rings is the one with least pressure. I learned loads but I think just getting the right person to check it out would be way forward. The person doing the talk was a qualified saddle fitter but rarely fots saddles now concentrating on bridles and bits. You have to undersstand this is what I garnered from the talk along with other bits and pieces I knew and a lot of things I thought I knew but were totally the wrong way round. I htink possibly the idea of having a bridle fitter checking is as necessary as the dentist and saddle fitter after all a saddle is also a simple piece of kit without many moving parts

Very interesting about the grackle and cavesson. I think most people would have assumed the opposite.

When I started riding as a child we were taught 2 fingers at the nose. When I came back to riding about 18 years later it was 1 finger between the cavesson and the part of the cheek where there is an indentation. The newer idea makes no sense to me, as even a tight noseband would leave a gap at that part of the face 🤷

 

[Wheels]

Very interesting about the grackle and cavesson. I think most people would have assumed the opposite.

The cavesson, fitted loosely with two fingers fitted between the bony part of nose and noseband, is the least pressure, how can it not be?

 

[windand rain]

Probably old school because it surprised me that so few knew how to do it properly and of course most people who were taught know how to do it but so many people are never taught anything about a bridle except how to put it on. I have witnessed instructors fiddling with bridles usually tightening things up when loose it is obviously exerting less pressure
The grackle exerts the least because of where the straps fit and a flash is the worst as the cavesson has to be tight to prevent the flash strap from pulling it down the nose basically if the cavesson is at the same level of tightness as if it was using a flash it exerts the same pressure a cavesson properly fitted and loose has no impact apart from to stablise the headpiece but it is rare now to see one fitted in this way

 

[Mule]

The cavesson, fitted loosely with two fingers fitted between the bony part of nose and noseband, is the least pressure, how can it not be?

The cavesson, fitted loosely with two fingers fitted between the bony part of nose and noseband, is the least pressure, how can it not be?

I'm just referring to what windland rain said

 

[J&S]

To answer Leo Walkers question about where did the nonsense about poll pressure and the hanging cheek snaffle: it comes from the marketing of the bit. P.E says it applies a "small amount" of poll pressure and encourages flexion.
However H & H article says:
How does a hanging cheek snaffle work?
“There is a lot of misinformation about the action of the hanging cheek,” says Horse Bit Hire’s Gail Johnson. “I do a lot of bit testing and fitting, and I’ve found that this type of bit doesn’t produce the poll pressure it is typically marketed to.
“The cheek pieces fasten onto the top loop and the reins onto the lower. When rein pressure is applied, the top part of the cheek tilts and the cheek pieces often become baggy and bulge away from the face, which raises the question — is any poll pressure being applied?”
Ema Odlin from The Horse Bit Shop agrees: “When you put pressure on a hanging cheek piece, the cheek pieces go loose so it’s impossible for it to put pressure down the bridle track over the poll because the cheek pieces are loose.”

We all know that marketing has a lot to answer for.

 

[Mule]

Probably old school because it surprised me that so few knew how to do it properly and of course most people who were taught know how to do it but so many people are never taught anything about a bridle except how to put it on. I have witnessed instructors fiddling with bridles usually tightening things up when loose it is obviously exerting less pressure

Some do love to tighten nosebands. If the horse is fine without the pressure I don't get why they want to increase it.

 

[Mule]

To answer Leo Walkers question about where did the nonsense about poll pressure and the hanging cheek snaffle: it comes from the marketing of the bit. P.E says it applies a "small amount" of poll pressure and encourages flexion.
However H & H article says:
How does a hanging cheek snaffle work?
“There is a lot of misinformation about the action of the hanging cheek,” says Horse Bit Hire’s Gail Johnson. “I do a lot of bit testing and fitting, and I’ve found that this type of bit doesn’t produce the poll pressure it is typically marketed to.
“The cheek pieces fasten onto the top loop and the reins onto the lower. When rein pressure is applied, the top part of the cheek tilts and the cheek pieces often become baggy and bulge away from the face, which raises the question — is any poll pressure being applied?”
Ema Odlin from The Horse Bit Shop agrees: “When you put pressure on a hanging cheek piece, the cheek pieces go loose so it’s impossible for it to put pressure down the bridle track over the poll because the cheek pieces are loose.”

It's a very widespread belief. I think there was some talk a few years ago that they shouldn't be allowed to be used in dressage. People in the know pointed out that as it didn't have a fulcrum, it couldn't act as a lever. The scientific explanation seemed to put a stop to the idea.

 

[Wheels]

There have been threads on here in the past re. Poll pressure and hanging cheeks with usual disagreements lol

 

[Wheels]

Probably old school because it surprised me that so few knew how to do it properly and of course most people who were taught know how to do it but so many people are never taught anything about a bridle except how to put it on. I have witnessed instructors fiddling with bridles usually tightening things up when loose it is obviously exerting less pressure
The grackle exerts the least because of where the straps fit and a flash is the worst as the cavesson has to be tight to prevent the flash strap from pulling it down the nose basically if the cavesson is at the same level of tightness as if it was using a flash it exerts the same pressure a cavesson properly fitted and loose has no impact apart from to stablise the headpiece but it is rare now to see one fitted in this way

It is rare but not unheard of - crank noseband are usually done up tighter and a lot of bridles now automatically come with a crank which doesn't help

 

[Kaylum]

We were always taught change the noseband before the bit. That advuce has certainly changed. Comfort bridles again not sure about those as there are conflicting views.

What looks comfy for the horse is not always the best for it.

 

[catkin]

Did he discuss anatomical headpieces? am interested in the latest thinking on them?

The saddler/harness maker who made my bridles has a view that placing the narrow headpiece of any noseband underneath the crownpiece of a riding bridle puts a pressure point over the poll. Their simple solution is to thread the headpiece over the top (same principle as an anatomic bridle, but it works with a more traditional pattern). I do this and it seems to work, though of course you do need to select the noseband carefully or have it made so everything lies properly against the horse's face.

 

[windand rain]

He did discuss them He said he fitted the headpiece of the Micklem the wrong way round as it gives greater ear room. He also advises a bridle with an integrated noseband rather than a seperate one as the less you have over the poll the better. His view of over the head piece or under was as long as the leather wasnt too thin it made little differrence to the pressure He also suggest buckles should be at or slightly below eye level and cheek pieces used that in many cases brought the bit slightly lower in the mouth than you would expect due to mouth conformation. He explained the slide of the bit in the mouth which with many bits can be as much as 1.5 inches

 

[Regandal]

He did discuss them He said he fitted the headpiece of the Micklem the wrong way round as it gives greater ear room. He also advises a bridle with an integrated noseband rather than a seperate one as the less you have over the poll the better. His view of over the head piece or under was as long as the leather wasnt too thin it made little differrence to the pressure He also suggest buckles should be at or slightly below eye level and cheek pieces used that in many cases brought the bit slightly lower in the mouth than you would expect due to mouth conformation. He explained the slide of the bit in the mouth which with many bits can be as much as 1.5 inches

Very interesting. My saddle fitter also does bits. We are now in a bomber happy tongue and have ditched the noseband.