Bit damage video

Randonneuse

Randonneuse

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Hello,

I watched not long ago a video (I think it was on Youtube) which shows the damage the bit can do on a horse skeleton/head.
My friend (we both ride bitless!) would like to show it to her brother as he has just started to learn to ride...with a bit as he is learning in a riding school.
Could anyone send me the link please?

Thanks :-)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtzSk57ccAk did you mean this one?

I don't believe some of the photos in this video are relevant to the bit or bit abuse for that matter, I'm not for or against people who wish to go bitless (in fact one day I would like to try a bitless bridle) but I don't think a bit if used correctly is a cruel tool.

For a someone who is learning to ride, educating them how to use the aids correctly and the effects of the bit would be better, not many riding schools use bitless bridles, least that way they learn the best of both worlds.
 
To be fair that video is focused on single joints, which is a good thing as they really should be made a historic bit!

Which doesn't explain why 99% of riding schools use your standard single jointed snaffle.
 
Jen_Cots said:
To be fair that video is focused on single joints, which is a good thing as they really should be made a historic bit!

Which doesn't explain why 99% of riding schools use your standard single jointed snaffle.
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cause they are cheap as chips I think - shame they can't find the £15 odd quid to at least upgrade to a french link! Not perfect for all but a damn site better than a single joint!
 
Am I missing something here - That video doesn't show how the bit damages the horse/ skeleton and I can't really tell if they are single joint , Dr Bristol, lozenge or french link bits !!

In fact its not educational at all !!
 
Ladylina83 said:
Am I missing something here - That video doesn't show how the bit damages the horse/ skeleton and I can't really tell if they are single joint , Dr Bristol, lozenge or french link bits !!

In fact its not educational at all !!
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Your right it's not educational at all, one of many videos blasting that bits are cruel, it's been done by people who only ride bitless ;) I only posted it as I may of thought that may be the one the OP is on about, as it's been on here few times if I remember rightly. :)
 
Maybe we should put a video together of lots of happy horses in bits and put it on You tube ! Or lots of un happy horses without bits in ! bonkers I'm not even die hard old school .... I use a barefoot trimmer for christ sake !!! lol

Good luck finding a riding school with no bits ! Out of interest, Would you put a novice on your horse in a bitless bridle ?

Kenzo I realise this video doesn't reflect your views - you were quick shap to find it though I'll Knock on your door next time I need something hunting down :-)
 
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As it happens I've only ever ridden in proper bitless bridles (Dr Cooks and hackamores rather than messing around with private horse in just a headcollar) at riding schools so can recommend you a couple (Suffolk and London/Essex).

Can't watch the video from work so no comments on that but do like as little bit-use as possible. I'm little so want to rely as little as possible on physical restraint of a horse to keep me and it safe.
 
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PS there are some horses I would be happy to see a novice on in a bitless bridle (and they have to learn to use those gently too!) and there are some horses I wouldn't be happy to see a novice on in any bit. As long as horse is well-schooled and rider well-taught with suitable tack I don't think it makes an awful lot of difference.
 
Tickles said:
As it happens I've only ever ridden in proper bitless bridles (Dr Cooks and hackamores rather than messing around with private horse in just a headcollar) at riding schools so can recommend you a couple (Suffolk and London/Essex)..
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That is really interesting as I have NEVER come across that before, are they approved too? (genuine interest)

Tickles said:
Can't watch the video from work so no comments on that but do like as little bit-use as possible. I'm little so want to rely as little as possible on physical restraint of a horse to keep me and it safe.
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Would you just get on any horse bitless not knowing its history or how well it went ? my mind would ask me questions thats all and when you go trekking or to a school that is usually the situation you are put in ie no prior knowledge. As we have seen from this forum people are often put on horses at riding establishments who can be unpredictable

Tickles said:
PS there are some horses I would be happy to see a novice on in a bitless bridle (and they have to learn to use those gently too!) and there are some horses I wouldn't be happy to see a novice on in any bit. As long as horse is well-schooled and rider well-taught with suitable tack I don't think it makes an awful lot of difference.
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This wasn't my question really although I do very much agree with your point - it was re the OP and her horse in particular .... I imagine ( excuse my naivity here) That with a bitless bridle your horse needs to learn respond even more so to your subtle body actions and more training is involved. Novice rders can be anything but subtle and I know that when I learnt to ride the ponies were anything but well schooled ... but then that was half the fun !

Can we make it clear that I'm not having a go about bitless riding, I've happily hunted in a hackamore. I just don't see that this video is helpful in the plight to educate us into understanding why we shouldn't use a bit !
 
Kenzo said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtzSk57ccAk did you mean this one?

I don't believe some of the photos in this video are relevant to the bit or bit abuse for that matter, I'm not for or against people who wish to go bitless (in fact one day I would like to try a bitless bridle) but I don't think a bit if used correctly is a cruel tool.

For a someone who is learning to ride, educating them how to use the aids correctly and the effects of the bit would be better, not many riding schools use bitless bridles, least that way they learn the best of both worlds.
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Hi, sorry only just logged on!
No it isn't this video.
The video I'm talking about shows the long term effects of the bit on the horse's jaws/skeleton via a 3D "picture"/video.
Not sure how to explain!
I'm hoping to find it :-)
 
Ladylina83 said:
That is really interesting as I have NEVER come across that before, are they approved too? (genuine interest)
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Yes, BHS and ABRS. In fact one is run by a regional BHS press officer. (Fab place, have been back for carriage driving, side saddle and all sorts.)

Ladylina83 said:
Would you just get on any horse bitless not knowing its history or how well it went ? my mind would ask me questions thats all and when you go trekking or to a school that is usually the situation you are put in ie no prior knowledge. As we have seen from this forum people are often put on horses at riding establishments who can be unpredictable
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Well, not /any/ horse no. But if I arrive at a RS then I'm usually more scared to get on the ones with a lot of hardware in their mouths because it is usually there for a reason! I'm occasionally the first client to get on a horse (after staff have tried it) at a place I used to go to regularly and can honestly say that while I've had some incidents a client probably shouldn't I've never had a problem (made worse) due to too mild a bit.

Ladylina83 said:
This wasn't my question really although I do very much agree with your point - it was re the OP and her horse in particular .... I imagine ( excuse my naivity here) That with a bitless bridle your horse needs to learn respond even more so to your subtle body actions and more training is involved. Novice rders can be anything but subtle and I know that when I learnt to ride the ponies were anything but well schooled ... but then that was half the fun !
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One of the ridden bitless horses had /the/ nicest way of teaching I've ever seen. If rider took up too much of a contact he would go to the nearest corner of the school and stand there until rider relaxed. Not dangerous, but really, really clear. More generally I agree, you can't just yank on the mouth to get what you want . But then good habits are easier to learn if you don't have to unlearn bad ones first.

Ladylina83 said:
Can we make it clear that I'm not having a go about bitless riding, I've happily hunted in a hackamore. I just don't see that this video is helpful in the plight to educate us into understanding why we shouldn't use a bit !
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And I've still not seen the video so I'm not defending it. Just finding this a really interesting HHO discussion :-)
 
Tickles said:
One of the ridden bitless horses had /the/ nicest way of teaching I've ever seen. If rider took up too much of a contact he would go to the nearest corner of the school and stand there until rider relaxed. Not dangerous, but really, really clear. More generally I agree, you can't just yank on the mouth to get what you want . But then good habits are easier to learn if you don't have to unlearn bad ones first.
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What a fab horse! And yes, def easier if you just learn the right way first! I got taught, thumbs on top, pull to stop and turn, off you go - fortunatly I would flatter myself that I have giving hands, now have left the bad habits behind and am getting on with a much more sensitive and correct way of riding! Would save me a fortune in lessons and so much time if kids at the riding schools I went to got taught feel and tecnique instead.

Not a vid, but for more understanding of different bits of tack and different types of bit (with ace diagrams) I find this website brilliant http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/index.php
 
Whilst on the subject but slightly off topic and this is a genuine question that may of been asked before but don't recall seeing a thread on it but why can't you compete with bitless bridles in dressage? (I was thinking about this last night whilst mucking out and pondering over trying my lad in one in the school..., some the best decision making happens when mucking out :D)

It just seem unfair to those that wish to ride bitless?
 
Really good point kenzo !! do they think you would have an unfair advantage ??

(off topic but my last nights muck out pondering subject was why they call a cockapoo that yet a lab/ poodle is a labradoodle and a jackadoodle well you get the point .... but its obvious really ... you can't really have a breed of dog called a cockadoodle!!! )
 
Ladylina83 said:
Really good point kenzo !! do they think you would have an unfair advantage ??

(off topic but my last nights muck out pondering subject was why they call a cockapoo that yet a lab/ poodle is a labradoodle and a jackadoodle well you get the point .... but its obvious really ... you can't really have a breed of dog called a cockadoodle!!! )
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hmmm, I don't know, I suppose if you think about it at lower level, prelim etc I can't see why you wouldn't be able to ride the same test and collect the same marks and hopefully achieve a similar score but then I've never a) used bitless bridle and b) never used one on a very well-schooled/good dressage horse so I suppose you'd need to have experienced that scenario to give a true answer, would it be fair to say that perhaps once you are more advanced/or riding in a double that you need more communication through the mouth perhaps?

Can certain movements still be performed without a bit?

Would be interesting to hear from those that have or at least can give more of in experianced view re this, I'm intrigued!! :)
 
Oh lord, now I'm totally confused, I have to admit, I'd never really given it much thought!! I think after reading the 54 pages, I dont like most bits now, but will still not go bitless. I think a french link, and quite thick one at that, is my best option, I'll buy one and see how it goes.
 
As someone who has spent many years riding in a riding school (not the same one the whole time) I can't say I've ever been aware of them just bunging a single jointed snaffle in everything.

At the one I was riding at most recently, and where my nephew is riding I can think of horses in a wide variety of bits for their standard lessons, including:
Myler jointed comfort snaffle with hooks
Myler non-jointed
NS universal
NS (I think) single jointed with a shaped mouthpiece
Lots of french link snaffles and lozenge link snaffles - a loose ring double jointed bit is the "default" bit.
Twisted snaffle
Kimblewick
Dutch Gag
Wilkie
Baucher
Fulmer
Full cheek snaffle
Happy mouth
mullen mouth snaffle


There are a few in standard single jointed eggbut snaffles but they are the minority and go happily in them. I don't agree with some of the bitting choices and have had a few discussions with my instructor about this, I have also tried some of the school horses in other bits or a double bridle. To be honest though the ones I have felt unhappy with have never been the single jointed snaffles!

Plenty of thought goes into the bitting, and the riding school are happy to buy new bits and change bits when necessary. My disagreements tend to stem from the fact that they tend to put something in that is suitable for novices and be unwilling to change it. So a horse that is slightly lacking in brakes is in a universal so that he is stoppable when being jumped by someone slightly novicey, but he wears that for a flat lesson with an experienced rider too when he would work into the contact much better in a plain snaffle. Likewise a couple wear snaffles all the time despite being a joy to ride in a double because they don't want the hassle of swapping things for different clients or between jumping and flat lessons.

I have also ridden bitless in a riding school.
 
Kenzo said:
hmmm, I don't know, I suppose if you think about it at lower level, prelim etc I can't see why you wouldn't be able to ride the same test and collect the same marks and hopefully achieve a similar score but then I've never a) used bitless bridle and b) never used one on a very well-schooled/good dressage horse so I suppose you'd need to have experienced that scenario to give a true answer, would it be fair to say that perhaps once you are more advanced/or riding in a double that you need more communication through the mouth perhaps?

Can certain movements still be performed without a bit?

Would be interesting to hear from those that have or at least can give more of in experianced view re this, I'm intrigued!! :)
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I can say without a shadow of a doubt that all movements can be performed without a bit. My friend is an excellent classical trainer and can do everything in a rope halter that she can with a bit. I am hoping to get some video this summer, and if I do I'll share it.
Just to add, personally I don't like Dr Cooks bridles. I don't think they are suitable for riding with an "english" style contact and they don't release well. I have seen a couple of horses that are ridden regularly in Dr Cooks with callouses under their chins. I'd be interested if others have come across this as well.
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfw5KIs28Ws&feature=related

This is the first of 4 short videos about bits, i think its quite imformative for any one who is interested.

Ive ridden bitless for the past 5 or 6 years now, mostly because its totally unnsessary to ride bitted, and i feel horses much prefer it too.

I have no real interest in doing dressage, mostly because they dont allow bitless. Which is a silly thing really, because it really has nothing to do with the bit.
A horse that can carry himself and be collected, can do it without a bit easily. In my view, a horse can do all the same high school movements bitless, as a bitted horse can. Again, it shouldnt be the bit getting the horse to do the movements, its the rider.
 
Tinypony said:
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that all movements can be performed without a bit. My friend is an excellent classical trainer and can do everything in a rope halter that she can with a bit. I am hoping to get some video this summer, and if I do I'll share it.
Just to add, personally I don't like Dr Cooks bridles. I don't think they are suitable for riding with an "english" style contact and they don't release well. I have seen a couple of horses that are ridden regularly in Dr Cooks with callouses under their chins. I'd be interested if others have come across this as well.
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Right, well thats good then so I'm still confused as to why bitless is not accepted then.

That would be great if you could share the video if you are able to.

From your experience then, which bitless bridles would you recomend and if somone like myself (a newbie to the whole 'bitless world' wanted to try a bitless bridle to use in the school and to school with) is there a certain make/type you would recomend as I'd be interested in having ago with one.
 
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