Bit evasion

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katymay

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Pony came to me in a Waterford gag as he is strong and has a tendency to set his neck low and tank off when out cantering, this bit didn't seem to be working for me or him so I swapped to a Waterford Pelham and now feel I have control, if he takes hold a simple half halt will usually bring him back to me.
I was bought a micklem bridle for Christmas and didn't think that the Pelham would work so also bought a NS universal Waterford as it's supposed to have same effect.
The first time I hacked in this combination ( with a martingale) he fought it a little and was evading but I didn't think the bit was sitting right, so today I adjusted it and used the bit clips , using D rings with no curb, he was awful, completely dead in the mouth , hacking with friends and we were behind, they trotted on he panicked as thinks he will be left behind and promptly stuck his neck up and nose right out, totally hollow and I had nothing, brakes or steering, ended up dropping contact and pulling on his breastplate to ask him to slow down.
Towards our hack home he was a little more accepting of it but don't think I am happy with it. Just to add, we don't school, we have no facilities so have to wait till the field is drier. I have booked a lesson in two weeks and instructor said he will look at the whole package including bit etc. How are you suppose to know which bit works without spending a fourtune on every type? Think I am always going to need a stronger bit out hacking and fun work. Just want him to feel comfortable with a contact so I can work him effectively rather than lopping along on a loose rein! Thank you
 
Pelham and micklem seems like a very uncomfortable combo to use in my mind. You haven't mentioned what ponio's brakes are like in other circumstances - can he reliably stop on command out hacking, and stand still until asked to move on again? Sounds more like he needs teaching from the ground up rather than a different bit combo.
 
fattylumpkin said:
Pelham and micklem seems like a very uncomfortable combo to use in my mind. You haven't mentioned what ponio's brakes are like in other circumstances - can he reliably stop on command out hacking, and stand still until asked to move on again? Sounds more like he needs teaching from the ground up rather than a different bit combo.
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He is strong, more so in company but will stop and wait as we often do ground work together, he is better alone and I can stop by seat or voice but we don't go far alone and I haven't cantered him out of the field alone as you have to hack along a nasty main road to get to any bridleways , he won't canter unless asked but does coil himself and jog in anticipation and once we go he really goes! He desperately needs some schooling but I need to get that bit right :(
 
I use a NS Universal, with a Tranz mouthpiece on a very strong horse and really can't see that a Micklem would be a useful, or comfortable addition. Why did you choose that bridle? Did you realise that the Universal is designed to lift the head ( my mare drops hers and leans), so is probably not much good with a martingale.
Could you go back to the Pelham that you felt you had brakes in?
We have no school either but I school on hacks, never trot/canter in the same place to avoid anticipation and insist on good manners at all times.
 
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You've got all my sympathy, mine regularly used to impersonate a runaway train, usually in lessons when there were plenty of small ponies and little riders to trample over. I think some of my old forum entries on that subject are still here actually! Somebody at the riding school suggested I try a single jointed hanging cheek or a fulmer on her (I now have both) and different tactics. The bars on both bits let me bend her neck out of hulk-brace-mode. Then we added lots of practice stopping at random intervals LOADS during hacks or schooling, tons of transitions, and learning to back up nicely when asked. She still has her moments where she tries to tank off, especially in company in the school when she gets hot, but I can bring her back really quickly now whereas before it was like pulling on a wall and took us a good 100 meters just to slow down to a trot.

Maybe some other folks here have better suggestions for your ponio. Mine is only really anecdotal. GL katymay :)
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I use a NS Universal, with a Tranz mouthpiece on a very strong horse and really can't see that a Micklem would be a useful, or comfortable addition. Why did you choose that bridle? Did you realise that the Universal is designed to lift the head ( my mare drops hers and leans), so is probably not much good with a martingale.
Could you go back to the Pelham that you felt you had brakes in?
We have no school either but I school on hacks, never trot/canter in the same place to avoid anticipation and insist on good manners at all times.
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Yes I wanted that from a bit as he used to drop and lean but now we have gone the other way and missed the in between ! Think I was naive in thinking the micklem was a good bridle? I bought it thinking it was more comfortable than a standard bridle, the drop noseband element never gets over tightened on mine? Can you be more specific as to why the two wouldn't be comfortable together? There is just so much out there it's hard not to get confused by it all 😳
 
Micklems have a positive effect for some horses and no impact what so ever on others. They are only going to be more comfortable for the horse if there were already issues with face pain. They are well marketed and do offer a lot of options within one bridle; but there are other similar designs on the market and you can achieve each impact separately by changing head piece, nose band etc. I do like them and absolutely they can have a stunning impact on some horses. But are only a fashion statement on most.

If you had no particular issues with your previous bit / bridle combination why not go back to it?
 
I would hold off on trying anymore bits until your instructor has been out and maybe go back to what was working for now. Hopefully he or she will be able to advise. It really is so dependant on your horse and you as a rider as to what will work best. I had a very strong horse who I rode in a Pelham but when he wanted to go it made no difference at all. Still remember going out for a leisurely hack one morning, passed a couple of cyclists and had a very polite " good morning, lovely day isn't it" conversation then 2 mins later horse spooked, spun round and took off back down the track past cyclists with me calling him all the names under the sun ( so embarrassing!). I was going to try a ns Waterford after a few sessions with the instructor but decided to sell him to someone with the time and space to give him the work he needed. In his case a different bit wasn't really the answer, he needed more work, schooling and a good blast to get the tickle out every now and then. With other horses a different bit has worked but i always prefer to try the schooling first as so often it's the brain not the mouth that needs to be worked on. Either way hope you find the solution. Good luck.
 
He may be evading due to it being too strong, I know the first thing you want to do with a strong horse is put in a stronger bit but it usually isn't the answer. Look carefully at the bitting & Noseband combinations you are using- Some sound like they may be contradicting eachother. I'd probably try him in a rolling mouthpiece not a waterford. I know they 'can't lean on them' but I think most horses often find them that uncomfortable they evade it in different ways. I'd be looking at trying something maybe like a tom thumb.
 
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