Bit experts! I need your help...

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juliehannah58

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I have only had my new horse for 8 weeks, when she first arrived she was VERY one sided, in only this short time she has improved so much (I'm thinking it was the old rider who was causing the one-sidedness). She is a big horse (16.3hh ID X Irish Cob) and can get strong when she is excited, in that she just fixes her right side, you can literally pull as hard as you like and she doesn't take a blind bit of notice. She only does this very occasionally now, but at a comp on Sunday was very 'fixed' for the first 30mins or so after being spooked until she calmed down, and I really struggled to get her round a turn in our round(SJ). Once she settles down she is fine although still strong at times.

She is currently schooled / hacked in a snaffle and jumped in a pelham with roundings. I have realised that when she fixes her head comes down which makes it even harder for me, so I'm thinking it's time to change the pelham. I am thinking along the lines of an american gag, has anybody got experience of these? She is nearly a tonne of horse so I really need something quite strong and she seems to react to poll pressure quite well.

Any ideas or opinions welcomed!
 
Maybe try a Ns jumper or tom thumb? Have a mild american gag action, but encourage them to stay soft in mouth? Or a waterford with full cheeks?
 
I looked at the tom thumb,I think something like that may work. She used to be schooled in a waterford but I'm worried I won't get enough 'hold' on her if you know what I mean? With the single or double jointed mouthpiece I feel like I can feel concentrate on her right side but with a waterford I'm concerned I'll lose this.....???
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Hmm, yes i see what you mean, have you thought about a myler? Independant action tends to allow with a bit more lift? The pelhams and Kimblewicks are quite effective, so ive been reliable informed!! I love the tomb thiumb bits, used one on a shirexcob who is a beast, and was fab in it.
 
Sounds like it might work then! I have considered the Myler bits, but (without sounding tight!) this is only a new loan horse so I don't want to splash out if I can help it, as I don't know how long she's in my care for! Only trouble is I can't find a tom thumb in a 6", argh!
 
I have used a waterford and really liked it for my bit strong old horse, he wasnt half as strong in it and you can get it as a hanging cheek or other mouthpieces. I would suggest a bit with one or more joints but i have no idea which would suit. Look at www.shop4bits.com they allow you to trial for 30 days on most bits and do bigger size bits too
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A snaffle for schooling & a Pelham for jumping seems abit extreme. You are using bits from opposite ends of the spectrum. Sometimes less is more & you can get a horse fighting the bit rather than the rider. The Pelham may be well too strong. Try hanging cheek/baucher or Waterford, give it a little time & hopefully the horse will get on with them & you'll have brakes & conrol but without all the ironmongery in his mouth.
Miami has a good idea, contact the experts at Shop4bits or The Bit Bank and they will be able to give advice & send you a bit to try. If it doesn't work return it & they'll send something else.
Good Luck
 
Up until 7 weeks ago she was in a hanging cheek waterford for schooling and hacking but now she is better schooled she doesn't lean as much so doesn't need it, however when she gets excited (i.e. jumping) she reverts back to her old ways. So she has only just started to be ridden in 'milder' bits. The reason I feel she needs a new bit is to get her head up more and get a bit thats not so easy to lean on. Once she gets going she is like a steam roller - nothing stops her! Adding another pair of reins REALLY helped in XC, so i don't think it's the bit that is causing the problems.

I will try the shop for bits, hopefully that will mean I won't have to add a load of 6inch bits to my ever growing useless bit collection!

Thanks for your comments
 
Its not much help now, but we will have a stock of 6" Tom thumbs in around a month or so.

In the mean time you are into expensive bits like Neue Schule. If you want to get the head up then you could consider a running gag with two reins.

The pelham with roundings is essentially a kimberwick, so relatively mild in action. I would not hack out in your snaffle so she does't learn that she can run through the bit and / or lean on it.
 
It seems to me if you have identified the one sided issue and have experienced how the mare reacts at a competition. The sensible option is to stay at home and plan a remedial program to prepare yourselves for the next competition. Ask yourself;

1. why is she stiff – this is not an easy one but make sure you have her tack, teeth and anatomy checked out (relying on a whim may not be enough)
2. ground work - so important and so often overlooked and ignored and yet the answer to so many ridden issues
3. working on the one sided issue with a steady series of exercises
4. making sure you have balance and control at the slower paces. If the response is not correct at a slower pace issues are magnified at a faster pace

Issues can't be fixed in 5 minutes or necessarily just by changing the bit at a whim.

It is simple, a horse can’t possibly give you the best performance if they are uncomfortable or in pain. Our job is to resolve the discomfort and pain not to make it worse.
 
Cheers Miamibear I have been looking for somewhere to try & bit from & have just ordered the Newue Schule Nelson Waterford Gag to try from them hope it lands before Saturday!!
 
I am not changing the bit on a whim, I have identified that this bit is now unsuitable for her. It is said that 95% of one-sidedness is caused by the rider, and since she has improved beyond all expectations in such a short period of time I expect this to be the case.

She has had full investigations before I took her on (she is on loan to me to compete) and nothing was found. Her one-sidedness is now unnoticable at home on the flat and mostly at shows, however it just appears occasionally when she is very excited. Since her only 'vice' is being very strong, I am assuming it's her inexperience at competitions which is causing this excitment (which, to be honest, I really do not mind at all, even I get excited!).

She is not 'stiff', she is a well schooled loose and supple horse, but she fixes her jaw and neck against you when she decides she is having too much fun to want to listen anymore. Do you still disagree that a change of bit would not be benefitial? In my experience if a horse is fixing it's jaw against your hand and lowering it's head to avade your hands, then a pelham is not the best bit.

I am very confident (well as much as I can be) that there is nothing physically wrong with her (as I said, her owner has had full investigations and she has all her routine checks done religiously), I very much doubt she is in pain or discomfort. Especially since she has improved so quickly in such a short period of time. I think this would suggest it was a rider error and of course, it's not going to be corrected overnight (her owner has ridden and worked her since a 3yr old, so it's all she knows).

I am a very experienced rider and horse handler, she is coming on leaps and bounds and I think that speaks for itself.

Horses DO have bitting issues, they do have BEHAVIOUR issues, not everything they do wrong or differently is due to pain or discomfort. The fact that this mare has had full investigations with no results points to this being a learning curve for her in her way of going. Obviously I would aim to have all my horses working happily in their snaffles but this does not always work, horses for courses
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[ QUOTE ]
It is simple, a horse can’t possibly give you the best performance if they are uncomfortable or in pain. Our job is to resolve the discomfort and pain not to make it worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kris R, this sounds like you are saying JH58, by asking what bit to change to, is trying to create discomfort and pain? I hope this is not the case and I have read this incorrectly.

I've seen JH58's horse at a show and in my opinion she goes very nicely, just gets a bit excited. Well she was that day anyway. I didn't see her tanking off (but wasn't watching her all the time). I notice her having a few problems around one corner and she had to move her body weight well out to get her to go around the corner. I certainly didn't see her pulling or jabbing her horse and she was using her body weight when her steering went.

JH58 is working with what she has been given and this is a difficult task, as she says if she could ride her horse in just a simple bit then she would. She's trying to help her horse and make it more comfortable.

Good luck with whatever bit you use, I personally use myler bits on both my horses. You could try the myler combination bit, I've heard it works wonders on horses such as yours. You could always hire one from a bit bank and if it works try and find one on good ole e-bay.
 
Hi Julie

Just a quick question, are you sure she is not just setting her neck?? Just a thought as a pony down my yard is VERY strong, she is ridden in a pelham and a gag and she still tanks round the school.

The girl had a lesson with my instructor and my instructor said that the pony actually has a very sensative mouth but coz she is setting her neck thats where the problem lies.

It sounds like this may be the case with your mare as she is fine in a snaffle for everything else but then reverts when she is not listening and getting excited.

Maybe just a case of practice practice practice until she learns to listen and relex instead of getting over excited.

I could be totally wrong of course but thought it might be worth thinking about.
 
Thanks Sarah !! Much appreciated
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I think I myler would work really well, especially as it has independant sides. I have heard people saying on here that it's hard to get mylers in 6inch. I'll have a search on ebay or hire a bunch I think....Thanks again for your help
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Hi Kelly,

I definitely think setting her neck is one for her tatics, as when she changes into this naughty mode her head drops right down and just leans on me (which as pelham has a downwards action, is not helping!) but I think it must be a mixture as even with her head down I can still get a reaction on the left rein, but not on the right. As Sarah said, one one tight right turn last weekend I resorted to using my body weight to shift her round!! LOL!

She is getting much better as the first 2 shows I took her to she did this in the first warm up and first round (she is always fine after she's jumped a round, I guess it's because shes more relaxed) but until last weekend she had done about 4 shows and been as good as gold. I think it depends on what side of bed she gets out of that morning!
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Hopefully my lesson next week will iron out any problems before we meet GF.

Thanks for your input
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Or she could be like my mare and thinks up new evasion tactics in her sleep LOL

I'm sure your instructor will be able to shed a bit more light. Cant wait to meet you both at the GF clinic.

By the way my Myler came up quite big so a 5.5 might fit her. I have also heard from other people that they come up big too. Might be worth seeing if you can try one from a bit bank first.
 
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