Bit for a little tank!!

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Little sisters mare is a monkey. She's 13.2hh, welsh D x Exmoor and she's unstoppable. Shes currently ridden in a wilkie snaffle and sister has very little control. Unfortunately she just sets her neck and grabs the bit, buggering off to do what she pleases.. naughty girl.
Up until the end of last year she was ridden in a dutch gag with a flash which seemed to be the only thing sister could stop her in, but it was borrowed and we've not been able to find one the same since that isnt really expensive! It seems to be very difficult to find a pony gag without massive rings!

So, what do any of you bit experts suggest for ponies like her with zero brakes?
 
I use a Pelham for my tank, but have slowly bought him off it bow he's more settled and only use it for XC or funrides now. Other times he's either in a snaffle or his Tom thumb for jumping
:)
 
I'd suggest schooling & more lessons mainly. If the gag worked before why not use one again if you really need something? Good thing about one is with 2 reins you can use the snaffle one & only the other when needed rather than always relying on a stronger bit. Doesn't matter if the rings look big.
 
I would try a waterford, perhaps a fulmer to help with moving that neck around. Waterfords are designed so the horse cant 'grab hold' of the bit
 
If you know little sister can stop her in the gag, surely you're best off getting another? Don't know what you used but you can buy them with only one ring below the main ring which is a bit less metalwork.
 
My big tank goes (and stops) very well in a NS Universal. But it does need 2 reins, so your sister would need to be able to use them - not sure how old she is.
A PeeWee is very good for equines with fleshy mouths and for teaching turning.
 
I'd do some schooling in a waterford with either full cheeks if turning is a problem or wilkie sides if breaking is an issue or a roller snaffle. You dont say how old your sister is but it might be that the pony could benefit from some schooling from a bigger rider.
 
Littlelegs its not really a schooling issue, shes just a madam, worse when she's in season!
We've seen a gag with a waterford mouthpiece as the waterford was something id considered so that she couldnt grab hold, and she does react well to the poll pressure from the gag.. Or should we go with either one or the other?
 
dafthoss said:
I'd do some schooling in a waterford with either full cheeks if turning is a problem or wilkie sides if breaking is an issue or a roller snaffle. You dont say how old your sister is but it might be that the pony could benefit from some schooling from a bigger rider.
Click to expand...

My sister is 18. Prior to the gag, she was in a fulmer with a french link. Turning isnt really a problem, its often control to a fence and then stopping afterwards that is the problem. She's a chunky monkey with a big strong neck and uses is to her full PMT advantage!!
 
Ah at 18 then I doubt a bigger rider will help (had visions of small child with cheeky pony :cool:) but maybe some lessons if shes not already having them. Then I'd try a roller snaffle and a waterford and see what she prefers then you can always get it with gag or wilkie cheeks if you need more later.
 
I thought the same as Dafthoss, small child on rude pony. I wouldn't try a waterford gag initially. One or the other, I'd go for the gag if you already know it works, & if I'm using a stronger bit I always try & use something with two reins so I can use the snaffle rein as much as possible.
 
The waterford is a strong bit, and some horses really do dislike it (my horse, who went well in his copper roller snaffle XC, really didn't get on with it because he couldn't hold it... I know that's the point, but I couldn't take a contact because he would back off it and I'd lose the front end totally!) but it's worked really well for little tanks of ours in the past.

Another option is a cheltenham gag with 2 reins. Henry cob was a solid thuglet, nearly as wide as he was high and going XC he'd just set his jaw and neck and go for a jaunt. The cheltenham gag really did pull him up short from doing that with a sharp half halt on the gag rein to say "Oi! Listen you!" before returning to the snaffle rein.
 
Sorry guys i didnt make it very clear :P
Pony is a rescue, little sister bought her almost wild and we've done well to get her where she is. Sister is a skinny type but rides her well, but as some of us know sometimes these cobby pocket rockets are all muscle hell bent on speed.
This is the two of them a couple of years ago bin the fulmer with the french link. This was good for a while til pony got a taste for jumping!
Excuse sisters poor position, was a bit of a flyer!
Bonniejump1.jpg
 
Our tank (13.3hh but thick set) also needs a gag & flash for jumping/xc. They are not that expensive - just bought a new waterford gag for £20 - the rings were a bit big but then I just found some smaller cheek pieces & put some rubber bit guards on to keep the lower ring (which she doesn't use) away from his face. Xx
 
Buy a few different bits from ebay. You can get them for a few pounds and then sell on the ones that don't work. I have done this and saved so much money.

Also I had a strong mare, she's now fine but I used to pop her in a grakle noseband and keep her in her snaffle, worked great for her.

Tom thumb worked well for one of mine, but slipped through the mouth too much, now use a hanging cheek snaffle with grakle and its perfect.

Does your pony open her mouth when she gets hold of the bit?
 
Just to say that a lot of the bits described here are for ponies with very different actions so kimblewick would be an option for something that chucks its head up, Pelham for something bearing down...but that is a very general description. I would keep a search on eBay for the bit you know that works!
 
I have had the exact same thing with my pony, been through every bit but now happy in a pelham with double reins as you can then use the strength as and when you need it. However I have a waterford gag but havnt really used it as pony hated it and she fought it, Itll be going on ebay soon if your interested it 5" with the whole host of other bits we have had
 
Thanks for all the info guys.. its funny ive never heard or seen a continental gag used with 2 reins before.. we've always just either stuck it on the snaffle ring or the bottom ring if she really has no brakes..is that not as common a practice as i once thought?! :S
 
I really like these bits for strong ponies -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GREAT-PRI...uipment&var=&hash=item76c10da9a3#ht_597wt_952

Have used them on a few for various reasons all with good results.

If you need a dutch gag with smaller rings have a look on ebay, I bought a couple of there that seemed to have much smaller rings then normal, can't find the seller mine came from but this one looks to have quite small rings -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-5-JEF...r_Equipment&hash=item231c4ea5c4#ht_500wt_1202
 
I've also used a tom thumb with rollers and copper inlays, very good, but very strong! I rotate bits on my little darling, as she gets used to them. I use the tom thumb, a dexter ring bit, and a hanging waterford, and sometimes a grakle noseband. The dexter ring bit is a racing bit though, but it is great for horses that grab the bit too much, quite cheap to buy, although you do get some strange looks!
 
We have a very strong 13:2 (welsh x) pony. When the children were smaller she was in a kimblewick but (following a visit by Hiliary Vernon) we switched to a little curved pelham (of a type we were told is often used for strong show hunter ponies) with an elastic curb chain, which she loves. We've since got a hanging cheek snaffle, with a similar mouthpiece, which she is also very happy in (purchased just after we'd had to switch bits for the dressage test in a little PC ODE & she spent the entire test trying to spit out a NS lozenge snaffle).
 
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