bit for a strong ex racer?

[bengal1502]

hi all, i’ve got a 13 year old ex racer who is wonderful in hacking and schooling in a double jointed snaffle. however when on fun rides or even cantering with another on a single track he goes into race mode , taking off at full gallop and i am unable to stop him in his snaffle. is there a bit that would help with this? he has a large tongue and low palate, and i don’t have the money to get him retrained from scratch. tia..

 

[AmyMay]

I wonder if this is truly a bitting issue, rather than understanding how to ride an ex race horse?

What happens if you drop the contact?

 

[bengal1502]

I wonder if this is truly a bitting issue, rather than understanding how to ride an ex race horse?

What happens if you drop the contact?

i’ve owned him for years, i usually ride in a minimum contact style on hacks, and we understand each other , or so i thought, it’s just like a switch goes off in his head, if i ease contact, sit up and ask him to slow he just powers on, and on windy tracks it’s just not safe, hence why i am considering another bit just for fun rides etc... even when he’s strong jumping i can still manage to control him with little contact in a snaffle

 

[Carrottom]

I struggled with one who would rake and really pull me forward, especially when jumping. My instructor suggested a Neue Schule universal with a Waterford mouthpiece, it looks a bit severe but was very effective.

ETA. I didn't need to use it long term, it broke the habit.

 

[bengal1502]

I struggled with one who would rake and really pull me forward, especially when jumping. My instructor suggested a Neue Schule universal with a Waterford mouthpiece, it looks a bit severe but was very effective.

strangely enough i was considering that.. i think a straight bar/mullen he may lean on, and a waterford may be flexible enough to fit his mouth comfortably. as ports are out of the question. thanks for your input!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

A waterford doesn't just look severe - it is very severe. There are plenty of alternatives to try first eg kimblewick, pelham, gag, kineton noseband, hackamore, whatever training you can afford...

 

[bengal1502]

A waterford doesn't just look severe - it is very severe. There are plenty of alternatives to try first eg kimblewick, pelham, gag, kineton noseband, hackamore, whatever training you can afford...

hi, would you be able to expand on that please? i’m open to suggestions, as he’s got a big tongue and low palate i think a big thick bar or anything ported would cause more pain than a waterford, and strapping his mouth tight shut would be uncomfortable too as his tongue bulges out his teeth. i’ve only tried him in double or single jointed.. single he rejected straight away, double seems fine but not enough for a high speed gallop.

 

[MuddyTB]

No helpful advice really, but I feel your pain. Mine was exactly the same, just couldn't hold it together cantering in straight line in an open space but perfect in the school or schooling in fields.
He did open his mouth and cross his jaw so a grackle helped a bit, but never stopped him trying evasion techniques, and trying to go.
Hope you find something that works for you.

 

[bengal1502]

No helpful advice really, but I feel your pain. Mine was exactly the same, just couldn't hold it together cantering in straight line in an open space but perfect in the school or schooling in fields.
He did open his mouth and cross his jaw so a grackle helped a bit, but never stopped him trying evasion techniques, and trying to go.
Hope you find something that works for you.

thank you, i was considering a grackle as seems there’s less pressure than a flash, he’s got such a big tongue he has to open his mouth completely to get his tongue over the bit, meaning a slightly loose flash does actually stop him doing that, but he hates it and shakes his head so actually ends up worse than without it...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I've seen the damage caused by them (waterfords) usually sore lips and gums.

You can get bits where the mouthpiece is thinner which can work really well for some horses eg Mylar bits. So a thin mullen mouthpiece in a pelham or kimblewick is possible to get if you don't think even a low port would suit.

The kineton could be tried with your normal bit or a new bit.

A hackamore is bitless so a different path but works well with some horses. There are different versions out there that vary in severity I have a little S hackamore on one of my arabs (he's a real tiny headed seahorse type) that he loves.

Do try anything new safely incase the horse doesn't like it. Also try to get some help from a experienced real life person who can watch you and the horse. This is usually far more helpful as they can see what's going on.

ETA - yes I have also known an ex racehorse that was never safe to canter/gallop in open fields. He was a brilliant dressage horse after retraining but his owner always kept to walk or trot on the stubble fields (had permission to ride there).

 

[bengal1502]

hi thanks! yes i think that is my biggest concern, that it would rub... if i used a waterford i’d get a nueue schule that has a smooth bit for the lips either end.. but yes i agree it would be a last resort, he’s already got a swollen leg from going too fast to a corner and tripping, so i’m having to weigh up if it’s worth using a harsh bit lightly if it may prevent a bad injury for us both as he easily reached speeds in excess of 30 mph when he goes....

 

[Meowy Catkin]

EDIT - I can read it now, thanks.

 

[Carrottom]

The NS waterford is designed not to cause sores and certainly didn't with mine. My instructor's comment was that the bit is only as severe as the hands holding the reins. I did check the bit frequently to ensure there was no wear, and didn't need to use it long term.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Presumably you still have the bumpy joints over the gums though?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Could you try something like a kineton noseband. I know with my exracer, although not in the slightest bit strong, the more u can leave his mouth alone the better he is. If he gets joggy on a hack I use my neck strap to stop him rather than go to his mouth.

 

[bengal1502]

Presumably you still have the bumpy joints over the gums though?

the ns has smooth bits either end so the bits on the outer lips and gums are smooth. tbh the only waterford i would consider would be one of those

 

[bengal1502]

Could you try something like a kineton noseband. I know with my exracer, although not in the slightest bit strong, the more u can leave his mouth alone the better he is. If he gets joggy on a hack I use my neck strap to stop him rather than go to his mouth.

yeah thanks, i will try a grackle or kineton! it’s not that he’s strong usually it’s just he flicks into race mode and i need a way to safely rein him in , without going overkill as i don’t want him to get a hard mouth

 

[bengal1502]

whilst i’m here, would the action of a cheltenham /nelson gag be less damaging than say a waterford dutch/continental? to pull him up ? tia

 

[Squeak]

I've had amazing results from the Fairfax bridle with the drop noseband with my ex-racer. It managed to stop him flicking in to racehorse mode so he can stay in his lozenge snaffle for everything. He was also a lot more confident and happy in the bridle in the school.

Before swapping bridle I found a conversation and hack with someone who knew racehorses really helpful and we'd already stopped the no brakes in racehorse mode scenario. The bridle then stopped him from going in to racehorse mode, where he could still feel strong.

 

[poiuytrewq]

The bits mentioned are not necessarily one stronger Or more severe than the other. You’ve already said about his large tongue and low palette. That’s your starting point.
Think about what it is he does, why you have no control.
Then look at the action of the bits or noseband. Does he cross his jaw? Then try a grackle. Does he grab the bit, maybe try the Waterford.
Rather than just buy a strong bit try and find one that will help your specific issue.
A bit fit consultant appointment may be a really good idea?

 

[Regandal]

I second a bit fit consultation. They will tell you what type of bit will suit his mouth. You don’t have to buy it from them.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would not put a Waterford on this horse I would try a Cheltenham gag .

 

[bengal1502]

I would not put a Waterford on this horse I would try a Cheltenham gag .

hiya, i haven’t ridden in a cheltenham gag before, please could you describe what action does it have on the horse and how would it help? (i think i know as more pressure the higher up the mouth the bit goes-lifts the head?) sorry not very familiar with that bit!

 

[Goldenstar]

It raises the head .
best used with two reins one attached to the bit ring and one to gag ring .

 

[marmalade88]

my exracer does most things in a lose ring french link. he’s been feeling well recently and we had a fun ride coming up. I hacked him a low ported Pelham and it was too much for him so I tried a lose ring Waterford which he went beautifully in. Any bit is severe in the wrong hands and any bit will rub if it’s the wrong size. I don’t agree Waterford are harsher than Any other bit, i kept the lose ring snaffle and a Waterford mouth piece was comfortable for him and stopped him taking that pull which meant he went off. We did the whole fund ride in it for 2.5 hours and he hasn’t got a single mark on him. I ride in a grackle nose band.

 

[bengal1502]

my exracer does most things in a lose ring french link. he’s been feeling well recently and we had a fun ride coming up. I hacked him a low ported Pelham and it was too much for him so I tried a lose ring Waterford which he went beautifully in. Any bit is severe in the wrong hands and any bit will rub if it’s the wrong size. I don’t agree Waterford are harsher than Any other bit, i kept the lose ring snaffle and a Waterford mouth piece was comfortable for him and stopped him taking that pull which meant he went off. We did the whole fund ride in it for 2.5 hours and he hasn’t got a single mark on him. I ride in a grackle nose band.

thank you! sounds similar to mine, i think a waterford may be appropriate as i always ride with the lightest hands possible in any situation ,so it shouldn’t cause any discomfort as i won’t be having a tight contact -if all goes well

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Op from everything you have said to me you don't sound experienced enough to deal with this horse when he reverts to his former lifestyle. You need professional help with him before you both get hurt.

So many people don't understand how to ride a racehorse and thus can not understand how to retrain them.

 

[BronsonNutter]

Lots of suggestions above - I'd agree with the noseband comments, my little TB does everything in a snaffle but benefits from a drop noseband or flash (I've never tried a grackle) for when things get especially exciting.

I'd also try dropping your horse in behind when you're cantering with a friend; some of the 'hotter' exracehorses are much better when they're behind - it seems counter intuitive but they're often better as can't see a clear run ahead.

If you don't already I'd also learn how to bridge your reins and keep them still that way - often those who've been in racing a while will pick up on if you 'change your hands' when cantering and use this as an opportunity to get faster - the opposite to most horses who listen more with a half halt and release etc. Little TB likes the contact *there* and not changing and there'll actually be quite a lot in my hand when cantering.

 

[bengal1502]

Op from everything you have said to me you don't sound experienced enough to deal with this horse when he reverts to his former lifestyle. You need professional help with him before you both get hurt.

So many people don't understand how to ride a racehorse and thus can not understand how to retrain them.

hiya i didn’t buy him off the track, someone before me did and retrained him although only had him for 6 months... i have had him for 3 years and ridden plenty of ex racers ( though have never ridden a race myself) and am familiar with the antics- he doesn’t do it every time though, i went on a fun ride and he cantered lovely in an open field and on a track with others, it’s a very irregular pattern( hence needing a backup emergency option ((diff bit)) )also , we do have an instructor however isn’t much help out of the school...