Bit For Young Strong Cob

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andynomnom

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Hi guys, ive been reading posts on the H&H forum for about a year and have finally taken it upon myself to join haha. i find it so helpful to read other posts etc as i always have queries.

Anyway, i joined so that i could ask does anyone have ideas of what bit to use with a young strong cob? He's only just turned 5, and he's been in a dutch gag for a few months on second hole from bottom but i feel its basically too much for him being so young. I know he doesnt like it aswell but i have good steering and brakes in it.

Tonight i used a loose ring snaffle and draw reins and schooled him and my arms didnt half ache by the end of it!

I really dont want to use anything like a pelham or kimberwick etc due to being so young ! Any suggestions will be helpful !!!

-Andy.
 
Hiya !!

I have a very strong young cob, and I started him as soft as I possibly could, Happy Mouth snaffle, etc. My pony actually HATES bits, and we are now bitless, but that's a long story.

What you have to remember with a young horse is that their mouths have very sensitive nerve endings throughout ( which you do not want to become de-sensitized, or the horse "hard mouthed"), and you must do your utmost to preserve that mouth. If the horse is pulling and mucking around, it's most likely that the bit is causing him pain.

My advice is to get a good instructor, and get their advice. You need to look inside the mouth and see the shape of it, and the tongue, and then build up your knowledge from there.

Certainly drop the gag, and NO WAY a pelham or kimblewick - you need a simple snaffle, and to learn to work with the mouth.
 
I'd have to disagree about the pelham, as long as you can use it with two reins & are educated enough to use them selectively it can be a very useful bit & only as strong as the rider chooses to make it (which is more than can be said for a dutch gag). It sounds as though schooling is what he needs, but if needs be I'd rather use a pelham sensitively than end up using a snaffle strongly.
 
You can use a dutch gag with two reins too, that's what I am currently doing, to wean my beast off it :)

I would get an instructor or someone who knows to show you how to hold the reins and so on if you don't already, but put one set of reins on the snaffle ring and the other on the second hole, so that you can give the first que to woah or whatever with the snaffle rein, and then back it up with the second hole rein if you need to.

My beast is.. in the process of realising that he can aviod meeting the second hole rein if he responds to the snaffle one first, if that makes any sense at all?

Also, mine goes quite well in any sort of full cheek snaffle, I think maybe having the pieces along side his face reminds him of the gag? lol
 
Hi , I assume when you say strong you mean he leans/holds the bit , pulls against you ? You say the Dutch is too much but again you dont say what he's doing ?! A single jointed bit , when you use your reins , pushes the joint downwards and onto the tongue , when this happens the tongue cannot lift and so the horse cannot swallow , thats when you get the evading ( leaning,headtossing , chomping , tongue over bit , mouth open etc etc ) . So a mullen mouth or anything with a cambridge mouth/port is really nice within your horses mouth as the tongue has room to move and swallow . Try resting your finger on your tongue , then try to swallow , now leave it there for as long as you can and see how long it is before its all you can think about ...how to swallow and get away from the tongue pressure . I agree with Nari Pelhams , Kimblewicks are great and if it makes riders think about what their hands are doing as its a " strong " bit , then all the better . Also a bit that is in a fixed position , as with a Pelham/Kimblewick ( where your cheekpieces fasten onto the slot ) are great because when you ask with your reins you may get a little poll pressure but when the horse does as you have asked , you then release the reins and the bit sits back up-right which takes the poll pressure away and off the tongue , so youve given a reward . With a ring type the bit always sits on their tongue , no reward of total tongue relief . BUT you have to trust your horse that giving him the tongue relief he's not going to take advantage ! Sometimes you have to start in a snaffle but dont forget to move on ... its all trust and training , its like your child learning to drive , they have all the bells and whistles to start with ( dual controls , instructor , training , L plates ) but you eventually take them away one at a time as they learn and they can do it bell and whistle-less !!! The other thing that people forget is that as your horse learns , we dont seem to move on with our bits , they stay in the same bit all their lives from a youngster . There is no quick fix , and no replacement to time and understanding . Read up on your bits ( include all .... neus-shuel(however u spell it !!!) Myler etc etc , read their principles and research ) and spend time with your horse finding out what works for him ( thats why bit bank's are great , try before you buy ) . If you speak to your instructor and a bit bank and try afew bits Im sure you will find something suitable and have a happy horse ......and at the end of the day surely thats what we all want , a happy horse that doesnt need gadgets , I feel if you have a horse that wears the least amount of "control equipment " it shows you and your horse have spent the time learning each other and you both trust each other . Some occasions yes you need abit more than a headcollar and a bareback pad ( hunting , Badminton etc etc ! ) but dont forget to go back to normal stuff the rest of the time . You control your horse , but your horse can only tell you what he's not happy about , we have to listen and learn . Good Luck .
 
I would go back to basics, if you have a manege you can long rein and teach him to respond to voice commands, do not witter on, just single commands, he will soon get the idea, you can then transfer this idea to riding, and use your seat not your reins, the reins are not your brakes, he needs to develop his mouth, I assume [I may be wrong] he is on the forehands, so lots of gridwork to get him working and balancing.
Avoid over excitement.
I never use draw reins, they are a short cut, and you really want to avoid that. He sounds pretty strong, but he may have mouth issues of the wrong type, and you are risking asking him to fight you.
 
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i am in same position as you, have a young 5 year old cob who a simple french link snaffle wasnt enough, i now have him in a single jointed dutch gag with one rein on snaffle ring and the 2nd set of reins on the 2nd ring as my "back up" , switched about a month ago and so far have only had to use the 2nd set of reins 3 times! so i recommend it and dont think its too harsh for a young cob if used correctly and only to correct not listening to the snaffle ring, in time i hope to return to just a single joint snaffle :)
 
Call the Neue Schule help line. They give great advice as the founder has been there and seen it all.

You don't say what mouthpiece he's in, but I'd recommend a French link, or if that doesn't work, a Dr Bristol or Waterford.
 
Hi there. This is my first time posting on a Forum so sorry if I make any newbie mistakes. I have a 6 year old cob (owned him since 3) who is very strong at times. My show jumping instructor recommended a Neue Schule Tranz Angled Lozenge Universal (I know, a bit of a mouthful, PARDON THE PUN!) but it is absolutely fabulous. I spoke to NS about my dilemna and they explained that this bit is perfect for youngsters as it is only 1 step up from a snaffle. It has added steering control and a much better braking response and has eliminated the head toss which the gags/pelhams caused. I use a curb with it when hunting but don't need it for flatwork/jumping. Try this link http://www.horsebithire.com/neue-schule-tranz-universal-16

As this enables you to hire the bit and see if it works without having to go to the signifcant expense of buying it. I would thoroughly recommend it tho!

Good luck :)
 
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