Mike007
Well-Known Member
Double bridle rather than pelham, diferent areas of contact.OK I,m a bit old fashioned,but I think if you cant do it with a double bridle ,it cant be done.
Bit help strong hunter please!
- Thread starter cptrayes
- Start date
Skitz
New User
Hi, I had the same problem with a very strong 17hh TBX, we jumped everything at the gallop out hunting! Tried all sorts of gags/pelhams etc and the only thing that worked a little bit was a Dutch gag with Waterford mouthpiece, but this made a mess of the sides of his mouth. I now use a long shank myler combination with standard (04) mouthpiece which so far works very well and doesn't hurt his mouth. I need to keep the rope very loose to let the bit come into play, so have attached the rope to a thin noseband to hold it in place. If the rope stops the bit too early then he ignores it.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Of course, the answer is to always keep him up the front or you could always sell him to the Master, that way he's doing the job he loves where he should be and will be perfectly behaved too because he is doing that job. I've known it happen too many times to be a coincidence but put them where they think they should be and they stop all the bad habits; they know!
Do sympathise though, nothing worse than being out of control.
Do sympathise though, nothing worse than being out of control.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Maesfen have you been talking to him? Please don't, you'll give him ideas! The Master has his eyes on him, I can see - who wouldn't really, a black horse jumping out of its skin?
http://www.photoboxgallery.com/canphotos/photo?photo_id=849091932&vendor_id=3024219
Mrsew thanks for the suggestion A Dutch gag on the bottom ring is almost exactly the same as a pelham on the curb so I'm not sure it will work...
Toying with a double Mike007. I've got a spare set of bits too. I don't know why I'm reluctant to try it, to be honest. I couldn't really see how it would make much difference from the Pelham with two reins, but you are the second to suggest it now.
Ah, that's interesting Skitz because the Mikmar nose rope is similar, and with my fellow's big head there isn't much play in it.
Schooling result today - WELL! That's big fat NO! to changing the leather curb strap for a chain then. He went beserk. Reared, spun, jumped, backed up. I got off and changed it, didn't fancy that kind of fight for some reason
The rest of the session went a bit like yesterday, he kept on putting himself back into an outline without me asking. He wasn't relaxed, but he really does loathe schooling. He's one of those horses who won't walk once he's had a trot, or trot once he's had a canter. He did do some superb canter in it though.
Verdict is that the lateral control over the shoulders is incredible. He simply cannot do his normal shoulder evasions. And that he is very sensitive to the bit and it will need good hands to manage him in it. But the action is to raise his shoulders and drop his head and keep him "together", so I would say a big thumbs up so far.
Hunting on Saturday if the weather forecast is correct and he stays sound.
http://www.photoboxgallery.com/canphotos/photo?photo_id=849091932&vendor_id=3024219
Mrsew thanks for the suggestion A Dutch gag on the bottom ring is almost exactly the same as a pelham on the curb so I'm not sure it will work...
Toying with a double Mike007. I've got a spare set of bits too. I don't know why I'm reluctant to try it, to be honest. I couldn't really see how it would make much difference from the Pelham with two reins, but you are the second to suggest it now.
Ah, that's interesting Skitz because the Mikmar nose rope is similar, and with my fellow's big head there isn't much play in it.
Schooling result today - WELL! That's big fat NO! to changing the leather curb strap for a chain then. He went beserk. Reared, spun, jumped, backed up. I got off and changed it, didn't fancy that kind of fight for some reason
The rest of the session went a bit like yesterday, he kept on putting himself back into an outline without me asking. He wasn't relaxed, but he really does loathe schooling. He's one of those horses who won't walk once he's had a trot, or trot once he's had a canter. He did do some superb canter in it though.Verdict is that the lateral control over the shoulders is incredible. He simply cannot do his normal shoulder evasions. And that he is very sensitive to the bit and it will need good hands to manage him in it. But the action is to raise his shoulders and drop his head and keep him "together", so I would say a big thumbs up so far.
Hunting on Saturday if the weather forecast is correct and he stays sound.
Llewellyn
Well-Known Member
Hello, know lots of people have already put forward ideas. But was in the same situation and I am very small so haulling wasn't an option. I used a loose-ring waterford snaffle just ment there was no leaning very good (caverson noseband). Did mean I didn't have two reins but made such a differance that I didn't feel I needed it. But did try a dutch gag waterford and was rubbish on him as the poll pressure made him just put him head down which a) was not necessary with the breaks from the waterford action alone and b) scarey when I want him to be concentrating ahead not being a massive empty void infront of me. 
Have used a myler on my other pony and was very good as well.
In the short term vasaline or similar at the side of the mouth has helped me before just to act as a barrier.
Have used a myler on my other pony and was very good as well.
In the short term vasaline or similar at the side of the mouth has helped me before just to act as a barrier.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
OK, post hunting report on the Mikmar.
With the leather curb strap provided, even with the reins on the nose cord, absolutely effin useless! He sussed it in the first leg and was practically bolting by the end of it.
I swiftly changed to a chain curb at the first check. Marvellous. Control. Particularly lateral control so that he was completely unable to prevent me putting him straight when he was trying to crab into fences. Because the mouthpiece is a plate fixed solidly to the sides, you can open your hand and pull his head across to straighten him. Two other things changed. He was unable to force his head down to pull me out of the saddle. If I braced either rein, he lifted his head again, so brakes with only one rein. And long canters with him up in front of me instead of piling along on his forehand. That was new. And between legs he settled down into a relaxed walk, no jogging, no pulling, no headshaking. He did bite his tongue again, but on the first leg and never again, so that's an improvement too.
It's the mouthpiece that works, not the nose cord, so if I decide to keep it I'll be taking that off because it certainly raised some eyebrows! I did have a martingale on but I'm not sure that will be necessary, as it still had the action of bringing his head down without me having to ask, and I wasn't aware of him hitting the end of the martingale very often. If he isn't bolting, his preferred evasion is a full-on yank downwards, preferably when you are already unbalanced! He couldn't do that at all.
It wasn't a miracle cure, I would hardly have called him light in the mouth, but my knees have definitely taken less of a hammering than last week. It didn't stop him jumping, either, we did all the hedges available and plenty of timber.
With the leather curb strap provided, even with the reins on the nose cord, absolutely effin useless! He sussed it in the first leg and was practically bolting by the end of it.
I swiftly changed to a chain curb at the first check. Marvellous. Control. Particularly lateral control so that he was completely unable to prevent me putting him straight when he was trying to crab into fences. Because the mouthpiece is a plate fixed solidly to the sides, you can open your hand and pull his head across to straighten him. Two other things changed. He was unable to force his head down to pull me out of the saddle. If I braced either rein, he lifted his head again, so brakes with only one rein. And long canters with him up in front of me instead of piling along on his forehand. That was new. And between legs he settled down into a relaxed walk, no jogging, no pulling, no headshaking. He did bite his tongue again, but on the first leg and never again, so that's an improvement too.
It's the mouthpiece that works, not the nose cord, so if I decide to keep it I'll be taking that off because it certainly raised some eyebrows! I did have a martingale on but I'm not sure that will be necessary, as it still had the action of bringing his head down without me having to ask, and I wasn't aware of him hitting the end of the martingale very often. If he isn't bolting, his preferred evasion is a full-on yank downwards, preferably when you are already unbalanced! He couldn't do that at all.
It wasn't a miracle cure, I would hardly have called him light in the mouth, but my knees have definitely taken less of a hammering than last week. It didn't stop him jumping, either, we did all the hedges available and plenty of timber.
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cptrayes
Well-Known Member
OK, I'm sold.
I took off the nose cord completely and reined it up with two reins and a curb chain just like a pelham. He was so much easier to manage than in a normal pelham, and we had a great time. Today was open fields and big hedges that needed kicking on at, just when I would have been having the worst problems with him diving his head down or chucking it up. He doesn't try to chuck it up at all, and although he tries to put it down, he fails. All I have to do is hold firm with the right, and squeeze on the left. Lateral control is absolutely superb. He crabs, I put him straight, simples!
Perhaps the biggest sign that it is doing the right job is that for the first time I can ever remember, he has hunted without biting his tongue or cheeks or splitting a gum. No pink foam at all. It's never happened before, and that's enough for me to pay the £125 and keep the Mikmar.
I took off the nose cord completely and reined it up with two reins and a curb chain just like a pelham. He was so much easier to manage than in a normal pelham, and we had a great time. Today was open fields and big hedges that needed kicking on at, just when I would have been having the worst problems with him diving his head down or chucking it up. He doesn't try to chuck it up at all, and although he tries to put it down, he fails. All I have to do is hold firm with the right, and squeeze on the left. Lateral control is absolutely superb. He crabs, I put him straight, simples!
Perhaps the biggest sign that it is doing the right job is that for the first time I can ever remember, he has hunted without biting his tongue or cheeks or splitting a gum. No pink foam at all. It's never happened before, and that's enough for me to pay the £125 and keep the Mikmar.