Bit help?!

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ChestnutGelding5

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I currently ride in a Waterford Dutch gag, Flatwork/schooling snaffle ring. Jumping at home second ring and last ring if we go out.
before you say the Waterford is really harsh. I know that but baring in mind I have friend French link hanging cheeks, single jointed and French link gags, Pelham. In each one he has hated it. In the hanging cheek he ran round crossing his jaw I've completely ignoring me, in the single jointed and French link gag (was on the snaffle ring) he started rearing and flipped out whenever I touched the rein and the Pelham. Well, I knew that one was gonna go badly from the start he was rearing and would not accept it at all. The Waterford however he goes very soft and round in it however he does still cross his jaw so I want to try a grackle but is that really harsh?! Especially when I have it on lower rings?
It's the best bit I have found that he really goes nicely in and seems to accept more than any other type of bit, if anyone has any bit recommendations that I could try instead of the Waterford please let me know!! Otherwise let me know your opinions. I really don't want to hurt my horse in anyway but I just don't know what to doo!!!
My horse is 16hh WB X TB - can be very strong and head shakes
I might try a straight bar as he seems to hate the nut cracker action. You can prob tell I'm not super experienced in bits so please share your knowledge with me! X
thank you soo much!!! X
 
I would have thought that crossing the jaw is an evasion so it's possible that he doesn't like it as much as you think? Maybe his reaction just isn't as obvious?

Have his teeth, saddle and back been checked? The fact he is rearing and flipping out would have me worried. That's an extreme reaction. Is it possible he's not fully relaxed with this bit and requires more schooling rather than a change of bit? I reckon nearly all horses can do flatwork in a normal snaffle (even with a waterford mouthpiece if you need it)

Have you tried him in a myler or a neue schule bit? I would go down the route of milder mouthpiece and grackle rather than strong bit and strong noseband. If you overload the horse now what will you do when he learns to evade these....you'll soon run out of options?
 
ashlingm said:
I would have thought that crossing the jaw is an evasion so it's possible that he doesn't like it as much as you think? Maybe his reaction just isn't as obvious?

Have his teeth, saddle and back been checked? The fact he is rearing and flipping out would have me worried. That's an extreme reaction. Is it possible he's not fully relaxed with this bit and requires more schooling rather than a change of bit? I reckon nearly all horses can do flatwork in a normal snaffle (even with a waterford mouthpiece if you need it)

Have you tried him in a myler or a neue schule bit? I would go down the route of milder mouthpiece and grackle rather than strong bit and strong noseband. If you overload the horse now what will you do when he learns to evade these....you'll soon run out of options?
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Thanks for your reply. I have had his back, teeth and saddle checked. I know crossing his jaw is an evasion but he does it with every other bit I've tried, the Waterford is the one he does it the least with. I do school him on the snaffle ring, trust me I'm not the sort of person who over lodes their horse with tack. My aim is to get him in a bitless bridle one day but right now as he needs a. Lot of schooling and some brakes I can't do that. I've never liked flash' sorry grackles I think it's not very nice to strap your horse jaw closed but I thought if I try one for a short amount of time just until he learns then I can take it off. I'm going to go check out the bits you suggested as I've never heard of those before, hey might be an idea! X
thank you for your help! X
 
It seems to me that your goal - and the direction you're heading in are two diverging lines!

If you're a fan of bitless, then take yourself back a step or two and check out Richard Maxwell/Buck Brannaman/Monty Roberts et al who are riding big, powerful horses often without bridles - never mind bitless. There's more to riding than just your hands/bit - engage your seat & legs. I've ridden a 17.2hh warmblood in a headcollar - it's not impossible.

Something is going very wrong in your training if you're looking to "up the bit" - you need to get back to basics, either get some help in from an RA or abandon your bit crusade right now and try riding in a headcollar. Of course it's baby steps and you'll not get advanced dressage moves your first time out, but if you're serious about riding bitless then you've got to start at the beginning.
 
WindyStacks said:
It seems to me that your goal - and the direction you're heading in are two diverging lines!

If you're a fan of bitless, then take yourself back a step or two and check out Richard Maxwell/Buck Brannaman/Monty Roberts et al who are riding big, powerful horses often without bridles - never mind bitless. There's more to riding than just your hands/bit - engage your seat & legs. I've ridden a 17.2hh warmblood in a headcollar - it's not impossible.

Something is going very wrong in your training if you're looking to "up the bit" - you need to get back to basics, either get some help in from an RA or abandon your bit crusade right now and try riding in a headcollar. Of course it's baby steps and you'll not get advanced dressage moves your first time out, but if you're serious about riding bitless then you've got to start at the beginning.
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My horse is extremely strong excitable and spooky, and new to me. I'd like to get control and school him with a bit then in a year when I have taught him to respond to my seat aids I will start bitless. It's how I've done it with all my other horses and it worked wonders
 
WindyStacks said:
Something is going very wrong in your training if you're looking to "up the bit" - you need to get back to basics, either get some help in from an RA or abandon your bit crusade right now and try riding in a headcollar. Of course it's baby steps and you'll not get advanced dressage moves your first time out, but if you're serious about riding bitless then you've got to start at the beginning.
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And I would just like to point out I do not wish to 'bit up' that wasn't the point I was implying, I was simply asking if the bit I use with a grackle would be too harsh and what other milder bits could I try along with a grackle. So if anything 'biting down' X
This horse has never been taught to respond to seat aids before which is why I need a bit to help train him. I'm a huge fan of Monty Roberts, my last horse was 15.2 and I rode him tackles over 1m30 jumps, I started off with him in a Pelham (that is what he came to me in) and managed to get to riding him with no tack on at all, not even a neck rope, so I believe I will be able to do the same with this horse.
 
I would classify a grackle as quite a harsh piece of kit! Not technically a bit, but very much "strap 'em down and bit 'em up".

You are of course entitled to your own opinion.
 
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