Bit ideas (because I'm running out of them!)

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Walrus

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Looking for any ideas of bits to try with my 13.1hh fell pony. He is generally quite opinionated and this usually manifests itself as resistance to the bit. His usual technique is to over use the muscle under his neck to set himself and brace against the hand. He also has a tendency to suck his tongue back a bit and try and push on the bit (particularly if it has a losenge). He doesn't go like a giraffe and he doesn't overbend, he just sits and braces and I feel like a I need him to just give, yield and break over at the poll.

He's currently in a hanging cheek Myler comfort snaffle and a drop noseband. We have previously had him in a Myler Mullen mouth with good success but we felt he got a bit fixed on it so moved to the comfort snaffle to give a bit more movement.

We have also tried the bomber lockup, the turtle top, a revolver losenge and a neue schule starter bit. He really seems to dislike anything that moves too much or that has a central losenge.

Physiod regularly (with good comments when done recently), saddle checked this week and all fine, teeth done regularly (and the dentist commented there was more room in there that I was thinking).

He's out a BD novice, schooling elementary at home. Responds really well to lateral work to get him pushing over his back and swinging. But I don't feel we've found 'the bit' yet (even after a few years!) so any suggestions, however left field, would be most welcome as I think it's getting to a point where our progress is being held back by the contact issue we have. (Got to a point where I tried flexi reins the other week but that was just weird!)

Apologies for the essay, I have white chocolate mini eggs! 😀🍫🍳
 
Have you tried the Bomber happy tongue? Can work quite well.
Many fells in particular don't like jointed bits due to a high number having quite fleshy mouths, I find the mullen mouth type suit best, much of the time .
Good luck in finding the one to suit.

Edited to add, I had one that went ruddy well in a double,despite riding like a frog in most snaffles, another who was only happy in a floating cheek bit but definitely no joints....
 
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The Fuzzy Furry said:
Have you tried the Bomber happy tongue? Can work quite well.
Many fells in particular don't like jointed bits due to a high number having quite fleshy mouths, I find the mullen mouth type suit best, much of the time .
Good luck in finding the one to suit.

Edited to add, I had one that went ruddy well in a double,despite riding like a frog in most snaffles, another who was only happy in a floating cheek bit but definitely no joints....
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Have been reading about the bomber happy tongue, but I don't think it's dressage legal? Might have to try it for at home though and see if it helps. I think his mouth is quite fleshy athough the dentist said he thought his tongue wasn't overly massive for the size of his mouth!
 
Walrus said:
Have been reading about the bomber happy tongue, but I don't think it's dressage legal? Might have to try it for at home though and see if it helps. I think his mouth is quite fleshy athough the dentist said he thought his tongue wasn't overly massive for the size of his mouth!
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I'm not up to speed on stressage in last 2 yrs, sorry, but might be worth trying as schooling aid at home at present?
Dentist probably right about tongue, and you're right about fleshy mouth :)
I'd definitely look for a mullen mouth to try to at least rule out :)
 
Following this thread - my boy comes behind the contact or sticks out his tongue or snatches down and i have heard the bomber happy tongue is a good bit for this. I will be trying the eggbut version and have just ordered to try it from the bit bank
 
The bit bank are a flipping godsend aren't they?! I might try the bomber happy tongue, I'm always a bit put off bits that have no movement at all though as I worry he will just brace against it. I think I tried one of the Hilary vernon (??) informed designs Mullen mouths and it wasn't great, just a bit blunt and numb, maybe I need to revisit the no joints at all option!
 
If you haven't already spoken to one of the bit banks I would give them a try. I spoke to Vicky at the horse bit shop recently and she was very helpful- just awaiting a bit in the post now to try and see if it does the trick.
 
It sounds like you've tried a lot of bits, so could it be just more of a schooling issue? Are you un-wittingly reinforcing the bracing? Lot's of give and retakes of the rein so he cannot brace, can you ask him to stretch down and round? You've said the lateral work really helps, so he must be able to go ok in his current bit if you see what I mean?

We spent hundreds on bits for Topaz, she was a contact evader with mouth open gaping :o. Yes finding a bit that suited her mouth conformation was important, but schooling her to accept a contact was really the issue :o.

Have you tried the Myler comfort loose ring snaffle? The movement of the loose ring might help against the bracing, as the hanging cheek keeps the bit super still in the mouth so easier to brace against?
 
I know what you mean - and schooling does help and we are making (very slow) progress. I do still feel I've not quite found the right bit for him yet. My instructor also rides him when I go away and she has the same problem with him and suggested I see what other bits I could try.

You're right about getting him to accept a contact - what I want is for me to pick up the reins and him to yield, sometimes it happens but often, i pick up the reins, he resists, I "wiggle" and he gives, but I seem to have to constantly work on him - which in turn makes me very fiddly and it's a bit of a vicious circle.

I struggle to get him to stretch down and round - so any exercises to help with this would also be appreciated! :)
 
Ive just trialled the Bomber Happy Tongue on my highland, he is front end heavy as you would expect really and try as I might, I cant seem to lift him. Similarly to your pony OP, he has a habit of just fixing his neck against you if he really doesnt want to do something. I have to say, like you, Ive always steered clear of solid mouthpieces but tried it at the Horse Bit shops suggestion due to it having more room for the tongue. I found it absolutely awful, he did exactly what I feared and just completely ignored me, couldnt turn him, couldnt stop or steer him. Its going back. My original thought was to try the NS Waterford, the universal rings as he is currently in a NS Uni Verbindend. Although the waterford was no help at all I tried it with the curb strap and this has definitely helped, so I have gone back to my NS Verbindend with the curb and he is definitely lighter to ride.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
MBChe, did you use the loose ring version?
I've had similar result using the eggbutt version, completely different result with the loose ring jobbie :)
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Interesting - my finger is hovering over the button on the horsebitshop and I was about to try the eggbut - maybe I should go loose ring!!
 
FF, the waterford was the NS uni one with the 3 fixed rings, Ive found with the verbindend that they help to keep it still and him to turn. I did wonder whether a loose ring waterford might be better but as it seems the curb strap has made the difference, for now, will keep with his original bit. I just hate the feeling that if I drop my hands he would land on his nose :) I know a lot of it is his build and my lack of core strength but every little helps, as they say!
 
thanks - may well try the loose ring!

My boy doesn't feel like he'll fall on his head if I drop my hands - he feels more like his head will ping up a bit (driven by the muscle under his neck) and then just sit there a bit like an inverted llama! (in the nicest possible way). He's frustrating as when he goes nicely I get all overexcited that one day we will go out elementary or even higher and then some days I feel we shouldn't be let loose to do an intro!!
 
Walrus said:
I know what you mean - and schooling does help and we are making (very slow) progress. I do still feel I've not quite found the right bit for him yet. My instructor also rides him when I go away and she has the same problem with him and suggested I see what other bits I could try.

You're right about getting him to accept a contact - what I want is for me to pick up the reins and him to yield, sometimes it happens but often, i pick up the reins, he resists, I "wiggle" and he gives, but I seem to have to constantly work on him - which in turn makes me very fiddly and it's a bit of a vicious circle.

I struggle to get him to stretch down and round - so any exercises to help with this would also be appreciated! :)
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Ah yes I fear this may be way more a schooling issue than bit issue, sorry :o. Finding the right bit will definitely help, but an instant yield needs to be taught rather than just happens...

When you wiggle and he gives then what happens? Do you have any still moments without resistance? Don't forget a contact is elastic so there should be some give and take, so if he yields can you take the hand forward and he follows the contact? If not he isn't yielding but ducking behind the contact and giving you a 'light' feel without true acceptance, a contact can feel strong if the horse is still learning to balance.

Are you following a yield in the contact with legs on to encourage engagement from the hindquarters, then if he runs/braces a half halt to say sit back on those hind legs

Stretching is best with hands lower and wider, on a circle flex to the inside and encourage the nose down. However this is all super difficult without seeing you, can you try a different instructor for a different perspective?
 
Walrus said:
thanks - may well try the loose ring!

My boy doesn't feel like he'll fall on his head if I drop my hands - he feels more like his head will ping up a bit (driven by the muscle under his neck) and then just sit there a bit like an inverted llama! (in the nicest possible way). He's frustrating as when he goes nicely I get all overexcited that one day we will go out elementary or even higher and then some days I feel we shouldn't be let loose to do an intro!!
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Ah this answers my question about following the contact nicely, leg on and flexion might be the key. Engage the engine (hind legs) and contain the energy onto a circle would he then drop his head down?

When we bought Topaz we couldn't canter a 20m circle :o, she's just done her first Adv Med, miracles can and do happen keep the faith :).
 
I'll probably get shot for this but... last years project was a young cobby ISH, who, if he didn't feel like doing something would pull me out of the saddle and be a yob. What solved it was a month of working in a tom thumb. He learnt to sit and balance himself properly, stopped pulling me about and generally learnt some manners without either of us getting hurt. After that he went (and still goes) lovely in a baucher snaffle, but as a baby he just needed to be put back in his box and sharpish as he was too big and strong to be allowed to get away with it, it just stopped the arguments.
 
The problem I have with legs on into the contact is that we have plenty of power and speed, we are usually going too fast.

My hands are not great, I'm definitely not a natural and I really struggle with maintaining a consistent contact - we are each other's worst enemy!


Reluctant to change my instructor as current one is my miracle worked who has taken us from not being able to trot to placing at prelim AF and winning a prelim regionals. The problems have come when we're trying to progress our novice work and get him more uphill and move towards elementary. Combine that with him not doing much last year and having a total loss of form due to some liver problems (pony may have hit the gin to cope with his useless jockey!) I'm not sure if I'm just getting stressed and expecting too much! I may try some clinics over summer or something.

I'm already on project "make life fun and interesting and not all boring schooling for the pony" with a resolution to hack more, do poles once a week and go XC schooling soon. We are also entered for a TREC competition in a few weeks for something different.
 
I think you're doing great then, and yes I meant a clinic or one off, you don't have to permanently switch to get different eyes on the ground :).
 
Walrus said:
The problem I have with legs on into the contact is that we have plenty of power and speed, we are usually going too fast.
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This was my issue, we often ended up with what my instructor called "the sewing machine trot" :D

Slowing everything right down with seat/weight but keeping legs on really helped us. As you've found, lots of lateral work to allow you to get your legs on without shooting forwards. Think less about speed, more about impulsion - the trouble with the forward types is that we get tricked into thinking they're in front of the leg; often they aren't, so no true contact can be formed.
 
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