bit of a rant....... backing youngsters

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4fatponies

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i have a just turned 3 year old, planning on backing early next year-no rush, and in the meantime just play and basic groundwork,traffic,walks out etc
i also have a pony who was backed (by a male) before i owned him at about 1 1/2 years. not known when we got him. we rebacked him and have done groundwork and just hung out with him and its taken 2 years for him to become trusting and relatively safe, he still has 'quirky' moments and has a real phobia of men.

it really angers me when i see horses and ponies who are broken to ride at 2, being put to hard work at 3.
near me they are often advertised as just turned 3 broken/back, complete novice ride! really? they've learnt everything they can and accepted it all in that short space of time??
my big question is why are some people in such a rush to ride babies? or am i being too careful in waiting
 
Good lord, mines just turned three and i feel bad about thinking of starting him end of the summer when he'll be 3.5 years old... He'll then have a lovely holiday and come back next spring when he's 4.. IF HE'S READY! I suppose people are so excited by there "baby" being old enough to ride and they rush into it... but 2 is FAR to young :( awful.
 
Agree! My youngster is 2, and he won't be sat on until he's at least 4 and will not do regular ridden work until he's 5. I want his spine to be fully formed before he has to do any hard work.
 
I agree!!! I have a homebred 3yr old & if one more person asks me "when I'm getting on it" I will not be held responsible for my actions!! ;)
Honestly, what's the rush!!
 
Bought a 3 yr old ride n drive cob, put him in a field with an ex brood mare and others, kept up with ground work but just left him to grow a bit, now rising 5yrs old we are both happy to continue his education, he is much more confident in himself and I am confident he will progress happily
 
i have backed at 3 1/2 and turned away for 6 mnths with a couple bit generally prefer to wait till at least 4 1/2 it depends on horse/pony, i know people who have backed 3yr olds that really could do with waiting till they are at least 5 though and theres so only so many polite comments you can make when it just falls of deaf ears :(
 
I believe in backing at 3yr old and I would not appreciate repeated comments about waiting, polite or otherwise. I am not in a hurry to ride I just think three is the right age to start a ridden career, get the basics in place before they go through the challenging teenager phase. I think it is a waste of a horse to leave it until later. I do not like to see yearlings and two year olds broken in. The people I know who do it, it is because they say race horses are broken young so they see no need to wait to ride their own horse or because they have bought cheaply to sell on and will not make a profit if they have to keep for a year first before breaking.
 
We bought a 3 year old Appy and a two year old cob, two years ago. The Appy had been backed when we got her. They will both be backed and ridden this summer, having spent two years growing. The Appy now actively looks to do what I want her to, while loose in the stable, having been tied up short and forced to do what the people who broke her, making her resentful and anxious. She is a lovely girl now, but imo they need time and patience and the opportunity to grow up.
 
I refused to sell my good home-bred youngster to a family who probably wanted to back her, she was a strong and very happy rising two year old and they were not pleased.
It was not a matter of money, they knew her price and phoned up to tell me I was charging too much for her, after all I had already been paid £40 a week for full winter livery of the dam and her yearling while they sorted out their own facilities [ this took nearly three months]! If they had not tried to negotiate the price which had been previously agreed, I would not have realised their intention.
 
I started in hand ground work with my Dales youngster at 4 years old just regular small amounts and I backed him at 5 years old. I think you need to look at each horse individually, but I don't agree with rushing and entering age classes at 4, certainly not if you want a horse to be sound in their teens and to have a long ridden life.
 
In general, I agree that its madness to ruin a horse for the sake of waiting until it's strong enough. BUT: Waiting until an unruly youngster is a bit bigger and stronger before starting the job is asking for trouble. also, there can be a world of difference between backing and work.

I have introduced a pony to driving and backed another lightly at 2 before now. In both cases what was done would hardly constitute 'work'. In one case (driven) it was to give an unruly colt something to think about, and introduce some discipline, long-reining, then pulling a light exercise vehicle. In the other, we were backing his older friend, and it was a nice thing to do to let the quiet baby come too... a trip out to see the world, if you like, and not much different to taking him out in hand (the rider was a lightweight child for a half hour hack around the village), except that by the time he was ridden out regularly, he'd already got the T-shirt. The main advantage was that his fab attitude rubbed off on the nervous older pony, who might otherwise have been pet food.

The main thing is surely to treat each case as an individual, and do what you do for them, not for yourself. Personally I wouldn't have a 4yo doing endless circles in a sand school, as I think its asking for tendon issues, but that's considered normal. :(
 
I am a big believer in backing young horse in the spring / summer of their three year old year I don't believe anything good comes of waiting horses get bigger and stronger.
We don't leave human athletes till their late teens stuffing there faces living in a tiny space ( which most fields are to a horse ) then say btw I want you to learn to be a gymnast .
I don't think it's backing at three that an issue it's backing badly ,training inappropriately doing to much that's the issue .
But there's a a middle way that's not too little not too much it's about skill.
I used to work where we started a lot of horses and the worse always always where the five olds .
There's a no reason for a healthly horse to get to five without being able to canter a circle I just don't understand why people who leave them think their doing a better job than others .
 
Well, I don't/won't train by the calendar so I must be the one odd one out here.

If I can, I will gently lean over a foal as soon as it will accept it. I will gently put my coat over their backs. Later, that will be a coat on a long stick dragged all over them. When they are accepting that, I (or preferably someone else!) will lean over them. It is just a short step then to sitting up as the old coat thing means they won't spook when they see a large object behind and above them. I never over face them and so far, after starting a few youngsters this way, have yet to have a buck or a rear. But then I know I'm unconventional and just use principles I've learnt training other species. Note the carrot in the first picture. I'm a great believer in rewards (not treats).

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Fearna, thoroughly bored by the whole backing thing, has a quick snack.

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For this one I waited until 4 because mentally he was not ready and physically he is a very big horse. He was backed a month before his 4th birthday and so far hasnt put a foot wrong. However he was long reining and out and about as a 3yo and a bit like Dry Rot, had been leaned over (from a block!) and had things on and above him all from an early age. Previously I have backed at 3 as many horses are ready. All depends on the horse.
 
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Too many young horses ruined by backing and riding at three.

we know that horses growth plates etc don't start to mature until four at least and in some breeds a lot later yet people will still insist on getting on earlier.

Patience wins everytime. Helped a friend back her youngster who turned four this year. He is now out hacking with a buddy and happily trotting along, soon we will be asking for little bursts of canter before he has a little break as he has shot up behind again.

Will he be out jumping and competing this year? Nope not a chance but he will be happy and less likely of joint issues in a few years from being pushed too quick.
 
Many horses are ruined by doing to little as well .
Many horse are lame by ten because their training has been poor and has not got past the learning to carry a human on my back with stopping starting and steering stage .
There's been no one on the job with the skill and knowledge to develop the horse physically.
Longest lived horse we owned broken and raced at two still hunting in his twenties worst, ridden away at five beautiful horse but a walking vet bill from the day she arrived .
 
Mine turned 4 last month and has been sat on a couple of times, having being lightly started since Christmas time. There is another youngster on my yard that is a few months younger, that was broken 'professionally' this time last year when he was still 2 and has been worked ever since and is now being expected to start jumping and competing this summer. It pains me to see it, I hate seeing them being rushed when they are still just babies.
 
I suppose it all comes down to definitions. What do people mean by backing? A small person sitting on a two year old for a couple of minutes is hardly going to damage it's back for life, but the horse will remember the experience and learn from it.

There was an interesting mention of 'critical periods' on the radio this morning. That's stages in an animal's life when learning is extremely rapid. After that, the mind tends to be less receptive to new ideas. It is very important in dog training and I believe it is probably true, but less so, in horses. Eating grass does not require a lot of skill, unlike a wild canine that must lean to work with the pack. Ex-race horses are known to be problematic, possibly because they have learnt to do certain things at an early age and it is difficult to 'untrain" them.
 
I dont like the implication that people who back young are rushing or dont care about the wellbeing of their youngster.
My OH backed his filly at 3 last summer. He did it because she was already a chunky little thing and touching 14hh with plenty of growing left. Now at nearly 4 shes well passed 14hh and is one strong girl. He wanted to begin her education before she got any bigger.
Every horse is different. I dont agree with backing at 2 or younger. I was recently very annoyed to discover my boy was backed at 2 and was then bought by his old owner who did use to ride him quite hard. However I think 3-4 is a grey area and depends on the youngster.
 
Firefly9410 said:
I believe in backing at 3yr old and I would not appreciate repeated comments about waiting, polite or otherwise. I am not in a hurry to ride I just think three is the right age to start a ridden career, get the basics in place before they go through the challenging teenager phase. I think it is a waste of a horse to leave it until later. I do not like to see yearlings and two year olds broken in. The people I know who do it, it is because they say race horses are broken young so they see no need to wait to ride their own horse or because they have bought cheaply to sell on and will not make a profit if they have to keep for a year first before breaking.
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pennyturner said:
In general, I agree that its madness to ruin a horse for the sake of waiting until it's strong enough. BUT: Waiting until an unruly youngster is a bit bigger and stronger before starting the job is asking for trouble. also, there can be a world of difference between backing and work.

I have introduced a pony to driving and backed another lightly at 2 before now. In both cases what was done would hardly constitute 'work'. In one case (driven) it was to give an unruly colt something to think about, and introduce some discipline, long-reining, then pulling a light exercise vehicle. In the other, we were backing his older friend, and it was a nice thing to do to let the quiet baby come too... a trip out to see the world, if you like, and not much different to taking him out in hand (the rider was a lightweight child for a half hour hack around the village), except that by the time he was ridden out regularly, he'd already got the T-shirt. The main advantage was that his fab attitude rubbed off on the nervous older pony, who might otherwise have been pet food.

The main thing is surely to treat each case as an individual, and do what you do for them, not for yourself. Personally I wouldn't have a 4yo doing endless circles in a sand school, as I think its asking for tendon issues, but that's considered normal. :(
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Goldenstar said:
I am a big believer in backing young horse in the spring / summer of their three year old year I don't believe anything good comes of waiting horses get bigger and stronger.
We don't leave human athletes till their late teens stuffing there faces living in a tiny space ( which most fields are to a horse ) then say btw I want you to learn to be a gymnast .
I don't think it's backing at three that an issue it's backing badly ,training inappropriately doing to much that's the issue .
But there's a a middle way that's not too little not too much it's about skill.
I used to work where we started a lot of horses and the worse always always where the five olds .
There's a no reason for a healthly horse to get to five without being able to canter a circle I just don't understand why people who leave them think their doing a better job than others .
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Absolutely agree with all of this, i have a just 3yr old who will be backed next month who until this year has had almost no handling and was very unruly, I wouldn't wait till next year as at almost 17hh and myself at 5'4 and 9 stone I do not want her to be as physically strong as she would be at 5, I believe as a result of the minimal handling is thriving on learning and going through the backing process. She will be backed and hacked out and then be turned out to be brought into almost full time work as a 4yr old.

I have backed one at almost 5, brought back into work in her 5th year and she was far more complicated to start than the current youngster as she was physically and mentally very strong. That said after backing it would be a case of mainly hacking/ short schooling sessions working on balance and correct development.

I would always back at 3yrs unless not physically/mentally ready, not in any particular rush, it would annoy me if anyone tried to tell me different as every horse is different.
 
Firefly9410 said:
I believe in backing at 3yr old and I would not appreciate repeated comments about waiting, polite or otherwise. I am not in a hurry to ride I just think three is the right age to start a ridden career, get the basics in place before they go through the challenging teenager phase. I think it is a waste of a horse to leave it until later. I do not like to see yearlings and two year olds broken in. The people I know who do it, it is because they say race horses are broken young so they see no need to wait to ride their own horse or because they have bought cheaply to sell on and will not make a profit if they have to keep for a year first before breaking.
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I agree with this; unless the horse is very backward there is no reason why a well-grown three year old cannot start to learn to carry the rider. Proper work starts in the 4 year old year.
 
Well at least we all agree at 2yo, it's too early to start backing a riding horse/pony! They're not racehorses after all. That's just a different kettle of fish.

I used to think I wouldn't ever back at 3 and would wait until 4... but looking at the horse in front of you, you make a decision don't you? You either decide they are ready or wait.

I'm not sure about the whole doing it early to avoid troublesome teenage years as actually, they can be very sensible. I have seen for myself.

I backed my 3yo last autumn and turned her away until this spring. What I do with her this year is preparation. I think whatever age you decide is best, the most responsible thing to do is prepare them well for their life with us.
 
Sukistokes2 said:
I am a great believer in horses being started at four!
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Me too. By the end of their 3rd year I'd be beginning to start putting tack on and leading them about etc. possibly starting very gentle long reining or something but I wouldn't begin getting on until they were 4. Anything else is too young IMO. I think if something is being sold as a "novice ride" when its only 3 or 4 (or even 5!) then it's probably had its spirit crushed and has just given up already!

I also don't really get why people still turn horses away, I mean I can if you back them so young that they aren't mature enough (in which case, surely you shouldn't be backing them anyway...) but generally why not wait until 4 and then just get going? Never done any of mine any harm and they've always remained enthusiastic.

Faracat, I win - I got my mare last year and backed her at 9! Can't say she wasn't ready ;)
 
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