Bit Problems!!

I would be inclined to revisit the teeth especially given the scar tissue issue, there could be something abnormal there that isnt immediately obvious
 
Faracat said:
There is no poll pressure with hanging cheeks! :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MmikY9kRhI A slightly annoying video, but they've put a pressure sensor on the bridle that shows no pressure on the poll, infact it has a negative reading when the contact is taken up.

Some horses like the fact that they are pretty still in the mouth. The only way the OP will find out if her horse is in the 'like' or 'dislike' camp is by trying one. Hopefully someone will have one that she can borrow in a mouthpiece that he likes. You need to get both the cheek style and the mouthpiece right.
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Found that video really interesting about the poll pressure thanks for the link- Trying to get hold of a baucher to try now. I like the mouth piece he has now, though don't really know if he does or not but the more I use it the more I will know- Thanks again for your help
 
Elvis said:
I know Micklem bridles have been effective with some horses, and the leather work should not interfere with the scar tissue as it lies in different places to a conventional bridle. Or maybe even a grackle bridle, I know my horse preferred a grackle bridle to a flash bridle.

Also have you had his back/saddle checked recently, occasionally discomfort in this region can appear to be a bitting or mouth issue.
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I desperately wanted to try a micklem bridle on him until I went to the saddlery and didn't really like the quality of the leather for some reason, but still worth a try if I can borrow one off of someone

regarding back he has been checked once by the vet after I bought him, no problems there, second by a saddler on buying his first saddle, then by another saddler on buying his second saddle and then again last month just for a check up. He apparently has a pelvis that is very slightly rotated to the left, but this could be due to me as I know (although I try not to) that I do ride with more weight in my left stirrup. Mind you the saddler that said he was slightly rotated I didn't really agree, as she then did some fancy pushing and prodding of his back and then claimed it was all fixed within seconds, something that I don't believe is possible!
 
Faracat said:
Baucher/hanging cheek

hc04-hanging-cheek-low-port_1.jpg


you can get them with various different mouthpieces.
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Just thought I'd update- I had a lesson last night with Rocky in a hanging cheek with a ky rotary double jointed mouthpiece (my friend has the entire collection of ky rotarys haha) and it was the worst lesson I'd ever had. I had spent the entire day looking forward to trying the new bit in the lesson and I just couldn't get any inch of sense from him and had a zero rating in the brakes department probably because he was leaning on the bit so hard that I'd lost all strength to hold him up!

Thank you very much for taking the time to try and help with my bit problems, but my search goes on! I think we are going to try a gag next and if that doesn't help we are just going to go for a double jointed pelham with double reins- back to square one, huffffffff I hate feeling disappointed with myself/my horse, but yesterday I definitely felt that!
 
PaulnasherryRocky said:
Just thought I'd update- I had a lesson last night with Rocky in a hanging cheek with a ky rotary double jointed mouthpiece (my friend has the entire collection of ky rotarys haha) and it was the worst lesson I'd ever had. I had spent the entire day looking forward to trying the new bit in the lesson and I just couldn't get any inch of sense from him and had a zero rating in the brakes department probably because he was leaning on the bit so hard that I'd lost all strength to hold him up!

Thank you very much for taking the time to try and help with my bit problems, but my search goes on! I think we are going to try a gag next and if that doesn't help we are just going to go for a double jointed pelham with double reins- back to square one, huffffffff I hate feeling disappointed with myself/my horse, but yesterday I definitely felt that!
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If you and the horse liked the Pelham, how about trying a NS Universal? Similar to a gag, I use mine with 2 reins and a very loose fabric curb, which just stops the bit from moving too far when the curb rein is in play. Many horses like the Salox in NS bits. You can usually get them to try from a bit bank.
 
Try a Micklem....best thing ever for daughters pony, we tried every bit you can think of..he had his mouth constantly open, tongue over the bit, every evasion you can think of. He's now very happy in a Jeffries revolver snaffle with eggbutt cheeks and his Micklem.
 
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=225&xSec=4 My horse has a habit of tanking off and overbends in a pelham and looses the plot in a french link or eggbutt snaffle - weirdly though he goes pretty well in his cherry roller. He's been mock hunting in it and goes out to parties and on hacks in it - infact he's in it constantly! I'd be inclined to give it a go with a drop noseband if I'm honest, and this may sound really silly as well, but if my boys "going to go" putting my leg on actually stops him? If I'm just pottering and he gets half a stride of canter/about to tank off in, I put my leg on firm (not kicking just squeezing with my calves) and it just seems to get his attention back as with him despite all checks etc it's a "I'm bored" evasion technique, if this is the case with your boy too it may be worth trying!
 
budley95 said:
http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=225&xSec=4 My horse has a habit of tanking off and overbends in a pelham and looses the plot in a french link or eggbutt snaffle - weirdly though he goes pretty well in his cherry roller. He's been mock hunting in it and goes out to parties and on hacks in it - infact he's in it constantly! I'd be inclined to give it a go with a drop noseband if I'm honest, and this may sound really silly as well, but if my boys "going to go" putting my leg on actually stops him? If I'm just pottering and he gets half a stride of canter/about to tank off in, I put my leg on firm (not kicking just squeezing with my calves) and it just seems to get his attention back as with him despite all checks etc it's a "I'm bored" evasion technique, if this is the case with your boy too it may be worth trying!
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Thats interesting about putting your leg on- my instructor has just started making me do this for my downward transitions and I'm always thinking "are you serious?!" but I'm starting to see what she's getting at.

He's incredibly sensitive to leg commands but not in the right way- any leg command to him at first just means "GO!" so it takes a lot of warming up and leg yielding (not very gracefully) to get the message through, but putting leg on to stop is definitely improving his downward transitions!

I'll have a look at a cherry roller and will add it to my list! Thanks very much for your help : )
 
Would a drop noseband still affect his scar tissue, because the it goes in a different place? Or a grackle?
Maybe you could try a kimblewick without a curb chain?
Mine used to be strong but in a sweet iron snaffle bit she is much better.
Is he worried and snatching because the bits are too strong for him? If so you could try him in a flexible bendy rubber snaffle, dont know what they are called though
Good luck :)
 
I had similar issues with my horse, tended to lean. open mouth and get strong. I had tried lots of bits with no luck until a friend lent me a copper lozenge wilkie snaffle with a sweet iron mouthpiece with scrub board. I had never seen one of these before and don't really know a lot about them but am trying it at the minute and touch wood it seems to be helping a lot. I believe you can get this mouthpiece on a fair few popular bits. Good luck.
 
I've tried him in a wilki, but I've not tried any sweet iron bits so I'll borrow one of those off of someone. I am going to try a gag with a grackle noseband this weekend and we will see how we go! at least with a gag I can just adjust on to the snaffle rein for XC and hacking, and just go on the second or third ring for schooling- so it will be more consistent than swapping bridles all the time
 
For anyone who is interested, I seem to have found a happy medium with my boy and his bit.

As I said in the OP, he used to either be horrendously overbent but light on the mouth in a pelham, or horribly hard mouthed but not overbent in a snaffle

I have tried him in a rotary gag in the school and finally think I've found a middle ground! He was lovely and light on the mouth again, okay he was still tucking his head in but not nearly to the extent that he used to...big sigh of relief! So now he has two bridles, gag in the school, snaffle for hacking and XC
 
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