Bit recommendations for head shaking youngster

[Wagtail]

I'm breaking my mare in at present and our progress has been stalled by her continued problem with the bit. I thought I'd found one she liked (a nylon apple flavoured full cheeked one) but she chomped right through it in a few sessions. I changed it to one which looked the same (Shires nylon apple flavoured) but she hates it. It is slightly harder in texture and thicker, but not much. I had to get off her last time I was riding because she was throwing her head around so much that she was nearly knocking over the lady who was leading her (lady is very petite and over 60 so I was worried she would be hurt). Since this incident, I have been trying to get her to accept the bit on the ground and on the lunge. She is great until she feels any pressure on the bit and then she does the same thing, throwing her head from side to side. I have been using very loose side reins to try and accustom her to the feel of the bit. Without the bit she is good as gold and has no issue with me mounting or on her back. So far I have tried the micklem bitted and bitless. She hates that. I have tried a nue schule team up which she also hates. She is fine with the bit until I attach side reins or hold the reins and there is even the slightest pressure on her mouth. She also hates lunge cavessons so I use a rope halter to lunge from. She is perfect in the rope halter but it's not good for control when riding. She has had her teeth done only last week and she did have some sharp edges but she's no better since rasping. She has had her wolf teeth removed over a year ago.

As I say, we seemed to have cracked it with the first nylon bit but she chomped through it in no time. Any suggestions very welcome. Thanks.

Happy in this:

Not happy in this:

 

[gunnergundog]

A leather bit - old fashioned but used before the advent of happy mouth type bits, and very soft.

 

[I.M.N.]

Maybe something ported? My youngster doesn't like metal, jointed, lozened or strait, luckily I found this http://www.equiport.co.uk/products/horse/bits/inno-sense-ported-dee-ring-snaffle-tr34/ and he's now very happy. Also you don't say what noseband, mine will only tolerate a loose caverson.

 

[tallyho!]

Wagtail, do you use a noseband? I know you wouldn't over-tighten knowing your posts, but I wondered that if she is sensitive to thick straps around her jaw, maybe try taking it off just to see. Also, have you tried a very thin snaffle? Sounds as if she might have tongue issues? Apply any pressure just on corners of the mouth to begin with. See if that's more acceptable.

 

[ycbm]

If it's that easy to tell what she likes and doesn't, I'd find a friend with a cupboard full of bits

My first try would be a stainless steel Mullen mouth. I've had a lot of fussy horses like it.

 

[Ladyinred]

Our youngest mare was such a pain we gave in and went bitless. She is a typical Sec D in that she loves the noise they make so is constantly head shaking to make them rattle... we tried all sorts, and she tried all ways of rattling! Just like her big brother who loves any noise that irritates everyone else!

 

[ossy]

She sounds very fussy in her mouth, if your sure her mouth and teeth ect are ok i'd be tempted to remouth her from scratch with a mouthing bit.

 

[Rowreach]

If it's that easy to tell what she likes and doesn't, I'd find a friend with a cupboard full of bits

My first try would be a stainless steel Mullen mouth. I've had a lot of fussy horses like it.

I've got about 200 ............... I'd try a Cambridge snaffle (it's become my go-to bit) and put bitwrap round it. It worked a treat for my head flinging youngster because it's ported, stable in the mouth, small rings and the bitwrap makes it very comfy and warm.

 

[be positive]

If she does not accept the bit when you are on the ground she will not do so when you are on top, it may be stating the obvious but if she were mine I would go back to long reining with the reins on the bit, if it is the weight that is the issue then the cambridge would be worth a try but in realty anything may upset her and until she accepts a light weight/ contact then you will continue to have issues when riding, unless you can go fully bitless but it sounds as if that may be just as problematic.
Be careful you are not being too light and careful with her, she may be sensitive but sometimes the sensitive ones need a firmer approach to give them more confidence and encourage them to take the bit in a positive way, thinking forward rather than thinking about what is in their mouth, if you are not already doing so leave the halter on and have two pairs of reins so you are using the halter but keeping a quiet feel on the bit at the same time, not easy but if you have someone with you it should be possible.

 

[twiggy2]

My mare cannot tolerate a cavesson nose band- I did discuss it with my very and he pointed out there are lots of nerves running under the jaw and is surprised more horse do not object to cavesson noseband.
She also won't tolerate a happy mouth or similar but some of those materials actually cause burning in the horses mouth. I started her in a myler starter bit with no noseband or browband (she does not like them either) and she is in a Kk with lozenge on a loose ring now on a micklem bridle (still no noseband) and seems happy in that.

 

[Leo Walker]

What about a magic bit?

https://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/p_432_magic-bit-cambridge-mouth-snaffle-magic-pony-horse-bit

 

[Wagtail]

A leather bit - old fashioned but used before the advent of happy mouth type bits, and very soft.

Thank you. Never thought of that.

Maybe something ported? My youngster doesn't like metal, jointed, lozened or strait, luckily I found this http://www.equiport.co.uk/products/horse/bits/inno-sense-ported-dee-ring-snaffle-tr34/ and he's now very happy. Also you don't say what noseband, mine will only tolerate a loose caverson.

I'll take a look. Thank you. Sounds promising.

Wagtail, do you use a noseband? I know you wouldn't over-tighten knowing your posts, but I wondered that if she is sensitive to thick straps around her jaw, maybe try taking it off just to see. Also, have you tried a very thin snaffle? Sounds as if she might have tongue issues? Apply any pressure just on corners of the mouth to begin with. See if that's more acceptable.

No she doesn't have a noseband as after the micklem I figured that was one of her issues and the fact that she hates a lunge cavasson. I agree, I think she has tongue issues so will look for something very thin as the only difference I can see between the bits above is the top one is thinner in the middle.

If it's that easy to tell what she likes and doesn't, I'd find a friend with a cupboard full of bits

My first try would be a stainless steel Mullen mouth. I've had a lot of fussy horses like it.

I will give that one a go. Thanks. She has a tiny mouth so most of my bits are too big and I have to buy new, but that one shouldn't break the bank.

 

[Wagtail]

Our youngest mare was such a pain we gave in and went bitless. She is a typical Sec D in that she loves the noise they make so is constantly head shaking to make them rattle... we tried all sorts, and she tried all ways of rattling! Just like her big brother who loves any noise that irritates everyone else!

Yep, I am thinking along those lines too. I did try the micklem bitless but she really hated it. I am thinking about trying another type. I have an English hackamore but someone borrowed it and hasn't returned it, but that may be too severe for a starter bitless. What type did you settle for?

She sounds very fussy in her mouth, if your sure her mouth and teeth ect are ok i'd be tempted to remouth her from scratch with a mouthing bit.

Thanks. I have never used a mouthing bit. I always have gone straight to a full cheek mullen or lozenge bit. Might be worth a try though. I am thinking of buying another one like the one she chomped through because she was happiest in that, but she just got through it so fast.

I've got about 200 ............... I'd try a Cambridge snaffle (it's become my go-to bit) and put bitwrap round it. It worked a treat for my head flinging youngster because it's ported, stable in the mouth, small rings and the bitwrap makes it very comfy and warm.

Thank you. That sounds like it is worth a go.

If she does not accept the bit when you are on the ground she will not do so when you are on top, it may be stating the obvious but if she were mine I would go back to long reining with the reins on the bit, if it is the weight that is the issue then the cambridge would be worth a try but in realty anything may upset her and until she accepts a light weight/ contact then you will continue to have issues when riding, unless you can go fully bitless but it sounds as if that may be just as problematic.
Be careful you are not being too light and careful with her, she may be sensitive but sometimes the sensitive ones need a firmer approach to give them more confidence and encourage them to take the bit in a positive way, thinking forward rather than thinking about what is in their mouth, if you are not already doing so leave the halter on and have two pairs of reins so you are using the halter but keeping a quiet feel on the bit at the same time, not easy but if you have someone with you it should be possible.

You may have a point there BP. I have been very gentle with her. I have always done lots of long reining with youngsters (and older horses too). But this mare has always been extremely sensitive around her back legs and we had a couple of bad experiences with her running away as soon as she felt them. I persevered for a bit and brought her back under control but it was not the happy experience I like it to be and so I dropped the long reining all together as it was counter productive with her. She's not a nervous horse in the slightest, just has this think about her back legs. Finally, she will accept the hose on them and has never been a problem grooming, but anything like long reins, nope.

My mare cannot tolerate a cavesson nose band- I did discuss it with my very and he pointed out there are lots of nerves running under the jaw and is surprised more horse do not object to cavesson noseband.
She also won't tolerate a happy mouth or similar but some of those materials actually cause burning in the horses mouth. I started her in a myler starter bit with no noseband or browband (she does not like them either) and she is in a Kk with lozenge on a loose ring now on a micklem bridle (still no noseband) and seems happy in that.

Thanks. She doesn't like the team-up. My kk is too big. I might have to see if I can borrow a smaller one to try.

What about a magic bit?

https://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/p_432_magic-bit-cambridge-mouth-snaffle-magic-pony-horse-bit

That looks like a possibility. I think it would be worth a try. Thank you.

 

[Wagtail]

I don't mind paying a lot for a bit if it's going to work. The question is, will it work? I love the look of the equi bit D ring ported as I.M.N. suggested, but at £82 it's expensive if it doesn't work. My mare's full brother had similar problems. I might have to try and find out what they settled for in the end.

 

[fornema]

Mine did almost the same during breaking and had a very active shaking when you put pressure on the bit (ended up shattering my nose so you get how bad it was). How does she react to pressure on her sides? Is the horse generally a very sensitive i.e. if you have had to shout?

I ask because it became very evident with mine that it was to do with the mental pressure the combo of bit/leg pressure was putting on her (the pressure being put on was minimal), you could put any bit in her mouth to the same reaction. Changed her to the Micklem bitless but loose and significantly higher than the nasal bone with noseband but with reins just attached to where bit straps would usually be attached so as to minimise pressure and she became a different horse after and was far easier to educate and produce results. We can now use her NS snaffle no problem as easing her into dual pressure (i.e. legs on her sides and feel in her mouth) has helped her significantly, especially where developing balance.

To clarify I previously wouldn't ever have considered bitless and still unsure why i decided it was a great idea to take the bit off on a nutty 17.2 4yr old!

 

[MrsMozart]

Have you tried the Myler youngster bits? Can't think if the name at the mo'.

The Dizz would only take a straight bar. Ended up with a mullen if I remember right.

 

[catkin]

I've just backed my Fell in a Sprenger schooling bit (very very spendy but they do come up second-hand probably because they are not dressage-legal, not that I care - first priority is a pony enjoying his new work). The bit is anatomically shaped and unjointed. My fellow accepted this happily from day 1. I wonder if it is the stability and the tounge room under the port that makes it comfortable and that they understand the action

Would agree with the noseband comments too - try without.

 

[Goldenstar]

I agree you need to deal with this on the ground .
The bits you say she likes are fixed ring .
This suggests it not the tongue that causing the issue .
I would try an eggbutt metal straight bar .
I would try a cheeked French link
I would try the myler comfort snaffle loose ringed but this bit has helped me out many times these bits must not be too big in my experiance and come up quite bit in use for some reason .
There are various parted mylers my tricky tongued horse loves his high ported cheeked myler it looks horrible but he loves it .
The simple ported bomber bit ( a nicer version of the Cambridge snaffle ) this bit is a complete star .
The intelligent design curved mouth snaffle .
There's lots of bits in the bomber range including some new Mullen mouthed ones.
I had one horse who were a Waterford was the answer awful I know but I think it was the mobility of the bit the horse liked
If they chew nylon bits it's very difficult to use them I have had that issue years ago I got that one going in a stainless Mullen mouthed eggbutt .
Try honey on the bit
Try feeding horse in her bit
Try feeding gumbits before you work her .
Try some of the specially designed bridles the dyon difference bridle , fairfax and the like .
A full assement from a ACPAT trained physio would be useful .
And also I assume you have had a dentally trained vet give her a proper problem with performance type work up because that's called for .
Because biting issues are often just a canary singing about something else and you need to try to rule out everything you can .
I think I would consider X-ray the teeth and jaw .
It's not normal for horses in good homes started by competent people to have big issues with accepting the biting unless there's a problem driving it .
Very disappointing for you but I would be looking for some heavy duty imput from a suitable vet .

 

[Wagtail]

Mine did almost the same during breaking and had a very active shaking when you put pressure on the bit (ended up shattering my nose so you get how bad it was). How does she react to pressure on her sides? Is the horse generally a very sensitive i.e. if you have had to shout?

I ask because it became very evident with mine that it was to do with the mental pressure the combo of bit/leg pressure was putting on her (the pressure being put on was minimal), you could put any bit in her mouth to the same reaction. Changed her to the Micklem bitless but loose and significantly higher than the nasal bone with noseband but with reins just attached to where bit straps would usually be attached so as to minimise pressure and she became a different horse after and was far easier to educate and produce results. We can now use her NS snaffle no problem as easing her into dual pressure (i.e. legs on her sides and feel in her mouth) has helped her significantly, especially where developing balance.

To clarify I previously wouldn't ever have considered bitless and still unsure why i decided it was a great idea to take the bit off on a nutty 17.2 4yr old!

Thanks for this. I might give the micklem another go, as you say looser and higher. She is very sensitive. Not at all nervous, but reacts very strongly to things touching her. Shouting is an absolute no no. Energy has to be kept very low with her. Ignore the bad, praise the good. I love her sensitivity in many ways because I think she's going to make an absolutely fabulous little partner once I can get over the hurdles! She loves her liberty training. She comes to call at the mounting block and lines herself up, will go round and re align as many times as you ask, all with absolutely no tack, whips, carrot sticks or anything. She really wants to work so this bitting thing is frustrating.

 

[Wagtail]

Have you tried the Myler youngster bits? Can't think if the name at the mo'.

The Dizz would only take a straight bar. Ended up with a mullen if I remember right.

Thanks. I haven't tried myler bits yet.

I've just backed my Fell in a Sprenger schooling bit (very very spendy but they do come up second-hand probably because they are not dressage-legal, not that I care - first priority is a pony enjoying his new work). The bit is anatomically shaped and unjointed. My fellow accepted this happily from day 1. I wonder if it is the stability and the tounge room under the port that makes it comfortable and that they understand the action

Would agree with the noseband comments too - try without.

No noseband. I always start horses without. Thanks for the sprenger recommendation. I'll take a look. It sounds a good option.

 

[Wagtail]

I agree you need to deal with this on the ground .
The bits you say she likes are fixed ring .
This suggests it not the tongue that causing the issue .
I would try an eggbutt metal straight bar .
I would try a cheeked French link
I would try the myler comfort snaffle loose ringed but this bit has helped me out many times these bits must not be too big in my experiance and come up quite bit in use for some reason .
There are various parted mylers my tricky tongued horse loves his high ported cheeked myler it looks horrible but he loves it .
The simple ported bomber bit ( a nicer version of the Cambridge snaffle ) this bit is a complete star .
The intelligent design curved mouth snaffle .
There's lots of bits in the bomber range including some new Mullen mouthed ones.
I had one horse who were a Waterford was the answer awful I know but I think it was the mobility of the bit the horse liked
If they chew nylon bits it's very difficult to use them I have had that issue years ago I got that one going in a stainless Mullen mouthed eggbutt .
Try honey on the bit
Try feeding horse in her bit
Try feeding gumbits before you work her .
Try some of the specially designed bridles the dyon difference bridle , fairfax and the like .
A full assement from a ACPAT trained physio would be useful .
And also I assume you have had a dentally trained vet give her a proper problem with performance type work up because that's called for .
Because biting issues are often just a canary singing about something else and you need to try to rule out everything you can .
I think I would consider X-ray the teeth and jaw .
It's not normal for horses in good homes started by competent people to have big issues with accepting the biting unless there's a problem driving it .
Very disappointing for you but I would be looking for some heavy duty imput from a suitable vet .

Thanks for this, GS. All very good advice.

 

[Kaylum]

Would also say teeth check by a vet dentist who can sedate to get right into the mouth and have a good look round. I don't do dentists that don't sedate as so many times you see yes they have had their teeth done which is pretty much impossible to get all the way in and a good check without sedation. There is a really good podcast on dental treatment that is on Horsehour if you download and have a listen,
http://www.horsehour.co.uk/2016/07/24/vet-dentists-vs-equine-dental-technicians/

 

[YorksG]

I would give the Myler comfort snaffle a go, it's what I'm using with my quite sensitive Appy. Interestingly on the ground she messes with it, but stops playing when I am onboard. There is some movement in it, but it is quite a "still" bit, she is my third appy and they seem to do well with stiller bits. I hope you find something that suits her soon.

 

[Gazen]

I have a similar problem with my gelding. When I bought him he was in a crank noseband with flash on a 3 ring gag with a breastplate martingale. I was told he had to be ridden in spurs and I had to carry a whip to make him go forwards. When he did move he went around shaking his head and holding his nose above his ears.

Off came the martingale, off came the flash, off came the gag bit, the crank noseband is loose. I don't ride in spurs or carry a whip. We went through several different bits until I put him in a Myler low port eggbutt snaffle; very thin, with a port which gives his very fleshy tongue and lips space. He is happier and starting to go forwards. He still shakes his head, especially when he is getting tired, but he is using a lot less as an 'evasion'. His head is coming down and his back legs are coming under him. It is still not quite the right bit for him, but it is the best we have tried so far.

 

[Wagtail]

Would also say teeth check by a vet dentist who can sedate to get right into the mouth and have a good look round. I don't do dentists that don't sedate as so many times you see yes they have had their teeth done which is pretty much impossible to get all the way in and a good check without sedation. There is a really good podcast on dental treatment that is on Horsehour if you download and have a listen,
http://www.horsehour.co.uk/2016/07/24/vet-dentists-vs-equine-dental-technicians/

Thanks. I had her teeth done last week but agree it is probably very difficult to get the back ones done properly without sedation. I don't think the problem is her teeth though because she had settled well in the Feeling apple flavoured bit before she chomped through it. She started the head shaking thing again only a couple of weeks ago when I replaced it with the Shires version which is slightly thicker in the middle and much harder.

I would give the Myler comfort snaffle a go, it's what I'm using with my quite sensitive Appy. Interestingly on the ground she messes with it, but stops playing when I am onboard. There is some movement in it, but it is quite a "still" bit, she is my third appy and they seem to do well with stiller bits. I hope you find something that suits her soon.

Thanks. I have bought a comfort eggbutt which should arrive tomorrow.

I have a similar problem with my gelding. When I bought him he was in a crank noseband with flash on a 3 ring gag with a breastplate martingale. I was told he had to be ridden in spurs and I had to carry a whip to make him go forwards. When he did move he went around shaking his head and holding his nose above his ears.

Off came the martingale, off came the flash, off came the gag bit, the crank noseband is loose. I don't ride in spurs or carry a whip. We went through several different bits until I put him in a Myler low port eggbutt snaffle; very thin, with a port which gives his very fleshy tongue and lips space. He is happier and starting to go forwards. He still shakes his head, especially when he is getting tired, but he is using a lot less as an 'evasion'. His head is coming down and his back legs are coming under him. It is still not quite the right bit for him, but it is the best we have tried so far.

It's horrible the tack some horses are ridden in. Glad your boy has a more considerate owner in yourself now. I am going to try a ported myler if the comfort snaffle doesn't work. If that fails then I will be forced to go bitless, at least in the short term.

I tried her again in the team up bit yesterday. At first she seemed better in it but then the violent head shaking started even worse and so I had to remove the side reins and do some liberty straining instead. It's so frustrating not being able to progress at the moment. She hates the team up bit even more than the Shires apple flavoured bit so it is either the lozenge or the hardness of the bit she doesn't like. The discomfort seems to build until she starts to head shake after a few minutes being still. I think she needs tongue relief and a softer feel to the bit.

 

[baran]

It may be stating the obvious but have you had her vet-checked? I don't understand why people don't take headshaking as seriously as lameness. My lovely four year old started headshaking and had to be retired as it wasn't safe or pleasant for her or me to drive her due to headshaking. The current thinking seems to he that there is an underlying neurological problem, possibly similar to triennial neuralgia in people.

 

[baran]

The discomfort seems to build until she starts to head shake after a few minutes being still. I think she needs tongue relief and a softer feel to the bit.

This is how my pony started. We tried different bits but realistically the bit wasn't the issue.

 

[Annagain]

I would maybe try a hanging cheek? The cheek would have a similar effect to a full cheek to help turning and it's now been proven to reduce poll pressure and to be a mild bit. My boy wasn't a baby when I got him but he was incredibly fussy in his mouth and the Myler mullen mouth hanging cheek is by far the best for him. I've found it stays very still in his mouth so he doesn't have much to complain about with it. The curve of the Myler is quite pronounced and the mouthpiece is pretty small in diameter, which is very good for his exceptionally large tongue.If she has a small mouth it would probably be as good for her but for a different reason. Some bitwrap on it would give that softer feel you think she needs without making it too bulky.

http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=122

 

[Wagtail]

This is how my pony started. We tried different bits but realistically the bit wasn't the issue.

I don't understand why she didn't do it with the feeling apple flavoured bit. She did it with the team up last year, then I tried the feeling apple bit and she was fine in that. I only changed it because she bit through it and thought I needed a tougher bit for her. So it does seem to be the bit. I may just end up buying a new feeling bit every few weeks as she seems okay in that, but it's expensive at £22 plus p&p to keep replacing it.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Also stepping completely out of the box and running away with this idea is if she is that sensitive to the long lining and other things touching her then I would go back to ground work and lots of it.

Stuff on the end of long sticks with different feels touching all over, if she moves away stay with her until she stands then take it away.....this has worked for my wb and we did it for my big boy before he went away to be backed using a western approach which completely worked for him.

I think you need to be a bit more firm. My big boy had never been away from his breeders, we got him at six he had been.bittes, lunged and had saddle on but not long lining or rugs so we spent a good six months just teaching him all the things that went on in a livery yard and then he went off to be backed.

With regards to the long lines I think with time and a little bit of desensitisation every day then she will.get over it and you have to be firm and release when she gives.

Look up Payne Performance horses ( I think it's him) they have a very good way of doing things and Buck brannnman as his methods were used to back my boy and it was the best thing for him.

Other wise if you are still having problems maybe have a chat to a physio or vet just to rule things out