Bit recommendations please

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Finnbob

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What would you use for a very strong very forward going horse? Tends to stick her nose in the air and pee off. Anything with small sides/rings and she will try to open mouth to slip it through rather than turn and she doesn't appreciate a flash!

So something with a lowering action etc - and before you all say schooling schooling schooling etc I am aware of this but need some control to do some schooling!
 
Personally I would steer clear of any gag action bits as they tend to raise the head. I'd try a kimblewick or pelham for starters?

Have you had the obvious back and teeth check done?
 
A grackle might help with her mouth opening. I just find them so much more effective then flashes, which my horse just fought, but she respected the grackle.
 
The 'Pee Wee' bit works well for strong horses ,has it's own curb and cannot slide across the mouth ,so steering is never lost.
Check out their website and watch the videos..you can hire these bits to try.
 
I think I must ride wrong and have the wrong way of thinking.

when I put my horse is a phelem his head was up round my ears, in a gag he pulls his head down, I really don't get it!!

Gag - poll pressure so lowers the head

curb - pressure on the chin so raises the head?

What am I missing?
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A hanging cheek bit, and possibly a myler of some sort. Mine used to be really really strong (ie in a single joint dutch gag bottom rein with flash with previous owner). I now ride him in a hanging cheek myler comfort snaffle (MB02) and a loose cavesson. Sometimes, softer works. Otherwise, how about a myler combination? Can be good and very effective at asking Horses to break at the poll.
 
You're not missing anything, each horse is an individual and will respond differently to different bits.

I have always been taught as a rule of thumb that gags are great at getting their heads up (having hunted a show cob that pi**ed off with his nose on the floor I can agree with this
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), and curb bits have a lowering action (think of a double bridle with a snaffle - raising action, and a curb - lowering action).

I don't want to sound patronising with this reply and as I said there is no hard and fast rule, just see what works best.
 
I wouldn't think too much about it!

What you use works for your horse, and from what I've read he's a tricky chap so don't fry your brain over analysing
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teeth, back and saddle all checked - she's just very strong and finds everything very exciting and wants to do everything at 100mph!

perhaps I'll try a pelham...
 
[ QUOTE ]
Gag - poll pressure so lowers the head

curb - pressure on the chin so raises the head?

What am I missing?
confused.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

A true running gag does not have poll pressure, it has runners and merely moves up in the mouth, hits the corners of the mouth and keeps going. This raises the head, but cna also cause split lips in the sensitive horse.

A continental (dutch) gag, is not a gag at all and whoever named them this ought to be shot for the confusion. It will raise the head with a light contact as it runs along the length of its ring, as soon as it hits end point leverage takes over and it lowers the head through poll pressure. Which is why people report different effects, but those being run away with and hauling for grim death report a head down...

The pelham has both poll pressure and curb action, both of which are head lowering. The only way it could possibly raise the head is if the curb is not correctly adjusted, as its poll pressure without the curb is much milder than the continental gag as the top of pelham only has around 1-2" of leverage compared to 3-5" of the continental gag.

So take the curb off a pelham and you are left with a fairly benign bit, which is worth being in mind if you are showing the truly snaffle mouthed horse as you can use this to stop them overbending with a judge!
 
Jolly well said CotswoldSJ and very well explained too.

The other thing I would add is when did you last see someone use a pelham with the curb chain tight enough to be effective? Generally it is swinging around under the horse's chin and doesn't come into play even when a firm contact is used.

If I use a pelham on a horse I use it because I want the curb action so I go the old fashioned way with the curb chain - through the top rings.
 
Actually its partly the manufacturers fault as most curb chains are too darn long unless you have an elephant of a horse!!

The curb should come into action when the shanks hit 45 degrees. This is actually normally tighter that you'd think from feel, so best way is to check using the shanks that you do have contact at 45 degrees or thereabouts

There are also lots of curbs to choose from, the normal double link, single link (sharp), the big flat polo link, leather, elastic and rubber and gel coverings.
 
so if i try a pelham what mouthpiece would you go for?

she was started in a straight rubber bar loose ring snaffle and then moved to a full cheek loose ring french link
 
If it were me I'd put yours in a bendy rubber pelham with 2 reins. For the reason that if they really are snaffle mouthed you just don't use the curb and the horse wouldn't know the difference.

If you use roundings and your horse is snaffle mouthed out hunting you could upset them!

Two reins are a skill everyone should have and after playing polo with 3 reins, whip and mallet, 2 reins are nothing!!

If you use thinish reins you really won't notice after a while, honest!
 
but i wouldnt say she was snaffle mouthed, shes never been hunted but is fairly impossible to stop out hacking alone, even worse with company and i think if she were to go hunting it would blow her mind!
 
Whoops I thought it was the thread about the horse that normally went in a rubber snaffle! Sorry
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Hunting - well if they fix and lean like a tank I'd chose a lozenge pelham so I could move it around a bit more. The alternative being a waterford pelham.

If they are not too bad a standard mullen or hartwell pelham is fine (and cheap!).

If horse was soft mouthed by 'may' run off with you I'd use the flexible rubber pelham

If I still had no brakes I would then start trying the more exotic variety like scamperdale, swales and sam marsh pelhams until i found something that I could stop the horse easily without ever having to pull. Helps if you have a bit fetish and a shop!
 
lol i may feel a bit fetish coming on! luckily i think my local tack shop hires bits so i can try some first

I've no intention of hunting her - i value my life! I'd just like to be able to go for a hack and not feel like its taking my life into my hands!
 
Well put it this way if you are pulling you are damaging nerve endings and brusing the horses' mouth - so I'd much rather over bit and never have to use it than underbit and either end up pulling or in a precarious situation.

I prefer 2 reins as then you don't use your brakes, whereas rounding you cannot switch off the curb, although roundings do suit some horses so do have their place.

I'd pop down and buy or borrow (as generally only £20) a mullen mouth pelham and see how you go from there.
 
i would prefer to use two reins but just dont think i can manage them on her - on a nice sensible school master i'd have a go but i've not used 2 reins for years and shes really not a good horse to be practising on
 
Does anyone know if you can get a globe pelham with a movable mouth piece? I'm thinking this may be a good one to try but think some sort of movable mouth piece will be better than a fixed bar or ported one she can lean on
 
I have a pelham with a french link which I'm really happy with. I do use it with roundings (though I'm happy with two reins and often hunt in a double bridle) as it suits this horse, and a leather curb chain.

I quite like the Neue Schule waterford pelhams too but was too poor to buy one
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