Bit recommendations & thoughts please......

[cob&onion]

My TB has a small mouth and her tongue isn't overly large but there's not much room in there as it fills her mouth.
She is ridden in a French link snaffle (loose ring) and was told by my dentist that the double joint was a good choice for her with her mouth conformation.
I find it hard taking up a contact as she does tend to snatch her head down or up and just refuses to work in an outline although she is moving forward and seems to be tracking up shes still going round like a giraffe and when she does settle into a contact its for about 10 seconds then its snatching her head up or down. So unless shes not being asked into an outline or shes working long and stretchy after a session shes not happy.........
I had the vet do a through check and she had a lameness assessment and everything was fine, teeth checked (where done by dentist 4 wks ago) vet did find she had muscle tenderness where the back of the saddle sits, def caused by the saddle. Vet advised 3 weeks off work (shes had 1 week so far) but am giving her 4 as away for the 4th week. Having a saddle fitted as soon as shes recovered, have found a good saddler recommended to me by vet - so that could have been causing the problems. On the flat she is very funny in her mouth and almost impossible to get her working correctly, again could have been the saddle.
When she comes back into work i want everything to be right and comfortable for her so i can establish if it truly is a schooling issue and not something physical. Am 99% certain its not my riding, planning to either send her off for reschooling or getting a very good instructor in for a while. She jumps fine, gets very excited although very strong in a snaffle - again snatches the reins and pulls me into a jump. Hacking out shes very responsive and not strong and seems happy in her head and mouth.
She always has alot of saliva, i mean lots so if she shakes her head it falls everywhere - now watching a programme on H&C earlier - a lucinda green one - thier *bit expert* mentioned that horses who have lots of saliva like my mare need a thinner mouth piece as the horse is unable to swallow so therefore the saliva just comes out - apparently they have to raise there tongue to do so but a thicker mouth piece restricts it.
So if this is right then my mare needs a thinner mouth piece and this contact schooling issue could have something to do with it if shes not comfortable?

I just want to do a bit of dressage with her and take her to novice level but after 18 months of trying we are stuck! i feel as though shes never going to soften and relax!!
I know reading back on this post it sounds as though am just drivin into getting her working correctly but its just so frustrating !
Maybe i will just have to except that shes a jumper and not a dressage diva

Any thoughts? bit recommendations? words of wisdom?
i was thinking of trying her in a myler......

 

[Eriskayowner]

I would try an MB02 myler - it is dressage legal with the loose rings, full cheeks (no hooks), hanging cheeks and eggbutt snaffles (no hooks).

As it doesn't pinch the tongue or dig in when it contracts, it will allow her to swallow.

Good luck.

 

[Jennyharvey]

It sounds to me that this mare could do with understanding how to soften to pressure, instead of pulling against you.
Remember to ride with a very light hand, because light hands will result in a light horse.

You want her to respond and 'give' to the contact, instead of trying to avade it. When you are standing still, ask her to soften her mouth. As soon as she gives, release the rein. Horses learn by pressure and release. Release being the reward. So as she gives, release. So eventually she should learn to come off the pressure rather than lean into it. But the release is important, because if you try to keep the pressure on, she will not get a reward for giving, and will end up wanting to take the contact back and lean on you.

When she will give and stay soft to this ask at the halt, try it in walk. Ask, and release as soon as she responds. Dont try to keep her head in.

When you walk around the arena, keep the reins slack, and ask a few times a circuit for her to soften, and gradually build up how long you ASK for.

But keep it short. Start with one stride, release, two strides, release, until you can walk ten strides with her soft, then release. Never be tempted to ask her to soften for too long. If she snatches with the rein, you have gone for too long.

I would normally ride on a pretty loose rein, and then occasionally ask my horse to soften, then after say half a circuit, release again. When my horse is fully trained, he should be able to stay soft for as long as i ask him too.

Eventually when she understands that being soft to the aids it what will get her a release, she should stop snatching at the reins and stay soft. But it may take time. Dont expect her to learn it in a few sessions.

People tend to ride on a contact ALL the time, never giving the horse a release and reward. This can make a horse lean and heavy. or like your horse. I like to teach my horse that by staying soft, i will stay soft with my hands, and there is very little pressure needed to get the horse to soften.

I hope this makes sense for you.

As for the bit, if you think its to thick, try a thinner mouthpiece, but being thinner it will be slightly harsher than a thcker mouth piece. I normally ride in a mullen mouthpiece(when i have to ride in a bit) as its a very quiet bit, but also a ported bit might help to give the tongue more room and help with swallowing.

This is a nice video of how light your horse should be, from riding round on a lose rein, to following a feel and going into an outline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsou0PWZRMo

 

[cob&onion]

It sounds to me that this mare could do with understanding how to soften to pressure, instead of pulling against you.
Remember to ride with a very light hand, because light hands will result in a light horse.

You want her to respond and 'give' to the contact, instead of trying to avade it. When you are standing still, ask her to soften her mouth. As soon as she gives, release the rein. Horses learn by pressure and release. Release being the reward. So as she gives, release. So eventually she should learn to come off the pressure rather than lean into it. But the release is important, because if you try to keep the pressure on, she will not get a reward for giving, and will end up wanting to take the contact back and lean on you.

When she will give and stay soft to this ask at the halt, try it in walk. Ask, and release as soon as she responds. Dont try to keep her head in.

When you walk around the arena, keep the reins slack, and ask a few times a circuit for her to soften, and gradually build up how long you ASK for.

But keep it short. Start with one stride, release, two strides, release, until you can walk ten strides with her soft, then release. Never be tempted to ask her to soften for too long. If she snatches with the rein, you have gone for too long.

I would normally ride on a pretty loose rein, and then occasionally ask my horse to soften, then after say half a circuit, release again. When my horse is fully trained, he should be able to stay soft for as long as i ask him too.

Eventually when she understands that being soft to the aids it what will get her a release, she should stop snatching at the reins and stay soft. But it may take time. Dont expect her to learn it in a few sessions.

People tend to ride on a contact ALL the time, never giving the horse a release and reward. This can make a horse lean and heavy. or like your horse. I like to teach my horse that by staying soft, i will stay soft with my hands, and there is very little pressure needed to get the horse to soften.

I hope this makes sense for you.

I understand what you are saying and agree totally
I am very light, soft and giving with my hands and as soon as she relaxes and drops i release, i just keep asking then as soon as she drops release again.
When i lounge her she wears side reins and goes lovely in these and really stretches down and relaxes into a contact, if i remove them then hop on shes normally nice and soft again........untill a few days later when i school her again I have had lessons with various instructors and they all say i have good hands and very giving - perhaps too much? but no-one has been able to help me so far

 

[cob&onion]

Anyone else?