Bit suggestions for young horse

[Michen]

I'm struggling to get my 4 yo "happy" in the mouth. He has greatly improved with a switch to a NS turtle top loose ring and a micklem bridle (with the drop bit just tight enough to keep the bit stable) and he is much better and softer in the contact but he still just seems to be chomping excessively even when cooling off on a loose rein. It's not a gentle, baby sort of mouthing its a lot of fuss and chomp.

I've tried a little straight bar nathe which was better chomp wise but not good contact wise, he is much better with something jointed.

Any suggestions or maybe just babyness? He has had his teeth done twice (every six months) by an EDT and also checked by my vet. He has a very simple mouth.

Worth mentioning he's hunted a fair bit and only just gone in the school.. and can be quite strong hunting.

 

[ihatework]

Try a cheek that offers a little more stability, either eggbut or hanging cheek.

Worth trying a single jointed too, the novocontact is a useful one in my bit box.

 

[shortstuff99]

I use this in my very sensitive mare, she liked to sit off the contact and be very fussy while at the same time being strong. She really likes it!

https://www.horsemanshipsaddlery.uk/ourshop/prod_6196564-HS-Eggbutt-Snaffle.html

You can trial all of these bits too through a bit fitter.

 

[Roxylola]

I suspect you're going to find its juggling between chomp as it sounds like he likes something still, and contact as you want something moveable for the contact.
I'd maybe see if you can get an eggbutt to try rather than a loose ring.
However, while you say hes better with a link, I'd be very tempted to at least hire a bomber happy tongue to try, it is a fixed bar, and I certainly wouldnt hunt in it, but I was really pleasantly surprised how well it worked for 3 or 4 horses I tried with it. I'd certainly at least start with one of those for young horses in general

 

[jnb]

I can thoroughly recommend Hilary Vernon for bitting solutions, my baby cob was similar and in a full cheek lozenge snaffle, he hated straight, Bomber or single joint.
We then tried a D ring turtle top which he was happier but still chomping a bit, Hilary came out locally and she recommended (and allows you to try/ride in) a Harmony Eggbutt and he's so much better an stiller in the mouth
Coinciding with this his top incisors came through, the left straight through but the right unerupted, (in March) making him a year younger than I'd previously thought - 6 this year. The right incisor has just popped through the tip of the tooth, 9 months later, and I do think it's made him a little fussier in the mouth while it's been coming through so I postponed my planned attempts for a pelham (via Hilary) for showing, there were no shows anyway but the 2 I did I just used the snaffle as he was happy in it.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is, after lockdown Hilary might be in your area, worth asking anyway as her knowledge is second to none. Plus you will NOT get any hard sell

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Mine still chomps sometimes when anxious but is overall more comfortable in an eggbutt. Initially he preferred a single joint, but now he is in a Sprenger RS Dynamic double joint and goes well in that. He might tolerate a loose ring now, I don't know, but a few years back as a youngster he really needed a fixed cheek otherwise it was fuss, fuss, fuss. He also seems to prefer the bit a little higher in his mouth as opposed to lower.

 

[Rowreach]

Try a cheek that offers a little more stability, either eggbut or hanging cheek.

Worth trying a single jointed too, the novocontact is a useful one in my bit box.

I agree with IHW about hanging cheeks as they work very well on fiddly mouths, and they give so much more stability in the contact that you would probably then be able to go with the double jointed mouthpiece (my favourite being the ported lozenge/training snaffle type joint). I'm not a fan of single jointed bits but hey, some horses love them

 

[Annagain]

Archie was incredibly fussy in the mouth. I tried dozens of bits on him. The only dressage legal one he liked was the Myler mullen mouth hanging cheek - it's incredibly stable in the mouth. Combined with the Micklem it made a huge difference to him. Bombers weren't around in those days but the curve of the Myler mullen mouth (as opposed to a normal one) is more pronounced and similar to a Bomber so I suspect either of those would be worth a try. He wasn't the ideal candidate for a fixed mouthpiece as part of his thing was leaning but he didn't lean as soon as he was comfortable. For 'exciting' stuff a waterford mouthpiece worked for him. He hated anything jointed - single or double but the flexibility of the waterford seemed to suit him and he was much happier in it than several other less 'harsh' bits.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm not a fan of single jointed bits but hey, some horses love them

Yes, like my IDx. She hated all the neue school lozenge type bits that I thoughtfully provided. When I eventually tried her in an old fashioned full cheek fulmer single jointed snaffle that I had knocking about, she was happy as Larry .

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

I use this in my very sensitive mare, she liked to sit off the contact and be very fussy while at the same time being strong. She really likes it!

https://www.horsemanshipsaddlery.uk/ourshop/prod_6196564-HS-Eggbutt-Snaffle.html

You can trial all of these bits too through a bit fitter.

I have their hanging cheek single joint for my very fleshy tongued connemara. The change was instantaneous!

Before that I had a fitter for Hilary Vernon come and I ended up with one of their D ring lozenge snaffles, again the change from her bit before that (a happy mouth single joint loose ring) was amazing. The hilary vernon bit was perfect for getting my mare comfortable (she had lots of teeth issues and their bits are slightly thinner than most and also curved to sit on top of the tongue) and I only changed to a new bit as my mare was starting to offer moments of stretch but it was like the bit was blocking her for whatever reason. Popped the bit in from horsemanship saddlery and she immediately stretched and felt more supple. They are also thinner than standard and curved.

On a side note I also recently bought a bridle from horsemanship saddlery and it is lovely!

Would strongly recommend getting a bit fitter out, especially one that has a few different brands in stock. I tried a few HS bits and a few NS bits and i could tell within seconds of getting back on what my mare thought of each of them! Saved me a lot of money in postage doing trial and error. The fitter for HS also looked at the fit of my bridle.

 

[scruffyponies]

Another vote for a hanging cheek on a fussy mouthed youngster.

Incidentally, some which initially react badly to a single joint snaffle go well in them once they have learned how to respond correctly to the rein to keep it in a comfortable place.

 

[Michen]

Thanks all. I'll have a play. My bit collection is limited, except for hunting bits!!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Try a cheek that offers a little more stability, either eggbut or hanging cheek.

Worth trying a single jointed too, the novocontact is a useful one in my bit box.

I was going to suggest this one of mine won't settle in a loose ring at all, he likes an eggbut or hanging cheek as they keep still in the mouth, his favourite is a sweet iron cheap old hanging cheek with a lozenge, tried all the expensive NS bits he didn't like any of them.

 

[GinaGeo]

My fussy mouthed four year old is best in a Full Cheek Turtle Top.

I would agree that a fixed cheek is the way to go. I personally don't like the feel you get down a hanging cheek, so I wouldn't use one, but the stability it provides could work

 

[Rowreach]

I was going to suggest this one of mine won't settle in a loose ring at all, he likes an eggbut or hanging cheek as they keep still in the mouth, his favourite is a sweet iron cheap old hanging cheek with a lozenge, tried all the expensive NS bits he didn't like any of them.

The majority of horses go very well in cheap bits

 

[palo1]

I suppose it depends why he is chomping really too...could be 'too much' bit (as in the mouthpiece is a bit fat) or too much movement for him (with a multi-jointed bit) or again not enough movement with a straight bar. A hanging cheek provides more stability with a multi-jointed bit but might be too 'wooden' a feel with a straight bar, even a bomber happy tongue type arrangement. ((ETA - I mean in relation to the mouthpiece only of course) If you think he prefers movement and the option to move the bit around without getting hysterical a hanging cheek might really help. My youngster loves a myler low port comfort snaffle but is not a chomper and is a bit 'tentative' with a consistent contact yet - it is tempting to keep changing things but I have found it useful to find a bit that is comfortable enough and suits the horse's mouth conformation and then try working with that to 'explain' the idea of contact and perhaps a little bit more stillness and relaxation. Not always easy to find a solution though and my teenage horse seems to need a greater variety of options depending...!!

 

[sherry90]

Mine chomps still but is significantly softer to the contact in a Bomber lock up (egg butt) I tried the Happy tongue in egg butt, loose ring and hanging cheek but because it’s fixed with no joint it didn’t have enough movement in his mouth for him to soften into he just tended to lean. Mine is known for holding the bit in his mouth and he needs to cheek pieces looser due to his mouth conformation but then sucks the bit back onto his teeth/holds it and plays about ? I was recommended the HP comfort D ring when I had a Bit Fit session and this post reminded me to order it. When I tried it I did notice huge difference in terms of contact but he was absolutely quieter in the mouth, his schooling has come on since then moreso, so it’ll be interesting to see when it comes!

Interestingly mine isn’t a fan of a double joint either and likes quite a narrow mouthpiece considering he’s a big lad!

 

[AdorableAlice]

Too prove I am ancient, this thread is mainly double dutch to me.! I need bringing into the 21st century because mine have all started in rubber mullen mouth, then to fulmer and then a double bridle.

I have some old treasures in the bit box that will never see the light of day again.

 

[Michen]

Too prove I am ancient, this thread is mainly double dutch to me.! I need bringing into the 21st century because mine have all started in rubber mullen mouth, then to fulmer and then a double bridle.

I have some old treasures in the bit box that will never see the light of day again.

I have a liverpool driving bit in my bit box bought for a particularly thuggish Connemara, I might hang it somewhere in the house as an ornament.

The sod still ran through it and that was the day I stopped hunting him

 

[Michen]

My dressage instructor seemed to think the loose ring was a good option for him, but not sure why, I'm seeing her on monday so will ask!

I wonder whether it's worth trying a proper drop rather than the micklem (which I tried before hacking, and it seemed to irritate him- but it seemed better schooling than a cavesson).

He's just been in a simple cavesson or grackle for hunting.

Not sure why he's chomping really, I'm sure the fact he's only really hacked and hunted hasn't helped and although he's hunted in a NS universal (turtle top I think... not sure), he was still pretty strong. I probably haven't done his mouth any good but it's done his brain lots of good so swings and roundabouts.

I'm not really clued up on bitting, Bog has always had a nathe or a fulmer with a roller for XC or various stronger bits for hunting.

 

[Rowreach]

My dressage instructor seemed to think the loose ring was a good option for him, but not sure why, I'm seeing her on monday so will ask!

I wonder whether it's worth trying a proper drop rather than the micklem (which I tried before hacking, and it seemed to irritate him- but it seemed better schooling than a cavesson).

He's just been in a simple cavesson or grackle for hunting.

Not sure why he's chomping really, I'm sure the fact he's only really hacked and hunted hasn't helped and although he's hunted in a NS universal (turtle top I think... not sure), he was still pretty strong. I probably haven't done his mouth any good but it's done his brain lots of good so swings and roundabouts.

I'm not really clued up on bitting, Bog has always had a nathe or a fulmer with a roller for XC or various stronger bits for hunting.

I'd be very interested to know her thinking behind a loose ring? I'd have thought it would be far too wiggly for him, unless she's thinking along the lines of a Cambridge snaffle, which actually might work for him (another cheap option, under £15 ).

 

[Michen]

I'd be very interested to know her thinking behind a loose ring? I'd have thought it would be far too wiggly for him, unless she's thinking along the lines of a Cambridge snaffle, which actually might work for him (another cheap option, under £15 ).

I’ll let you know, I think maybe the wiggle is helping to get him to soften to the contact a bit more? He’s quite a rigid, tight sort of pony until he softens which is then becoming quite nice.

Though after 3/4 schooling sessions he’s almost unrecognisable to what he was! Which was essentially his ears in my face ?

 

[scruffyponies]

I have some old treasures in the bit box that will never see the light of day again.

Some of my 'old treasures' are in active use. Anybody else still using nickel bits?
I know they break more easily (so wouldn't use it on a strong horse), but they are lovely for the pony, and a couple of mine are in them.

Less likely to get an outing is a 7.5" twisted nickel snaffle which came with some harness I bought.
Also included was a picture (c1900) of it's old owner. He was a majestic beast!

 

[Rowreach]

I’ll let you know, I think maybe the wiggle is helping to get him to soften to the contact a bit more? He’s quite a rigid, tight sort of pony until he softens which is then becoming quite nice.

Though after 3/4 schooling sessions he’s almost unrecognisable to what he was! Which was essentially his ears in my face ?

Oddly, the Cambridge works really well on tighter horses - it's probably worth a try, it's one of those bits that they either instantly like (and I mean instantly), or don't. The tightness and not wanting to soften, while still being a little chompy, is sometimes down to them being wary of what's in the mouth - so some will lean and go "dead", (which can be misread as being strong), and some will just fiddle and keep moving it about rather than seeking a steady feel down the rein.

 

[Michen]

Oddly, the Cambridge works really well on tighter horses - it's probably worth a try, it's one of those bits that they either instantly like (and I mean instantly), or don't. The tightness and not wanting to soften, while still being a little chompy, is sometimes down to them being wary of what's in the mouth - so some will lean and go "dead", (which can be misread as being strong), and some will just fiddle and keep moving it about rather than seeking a steady feel down the rein.

Thanks! As is probably obvious, I don’t really know what I’m doing with this schooling/bitting malarkey.

I have a very short video, this was his second time back in the school with instructor this time. It’s the only clip thats close enough to see anything but you can probably see a bit of the chomping on the long side. Excuse the awful Change of rein, I didn’t plan the jumps very well, thought he did a good job to put up with that and remain reasonable ?

The times he’d been in the school before I had focused on forward and off my leg as he was very backwards, and didn’t care much about anything else. Now trying to be a bit more disciplined to ask for more..

He was also ridden in and broken in with draw reins when in Ireland.

 

[Rowreach]

Thanks! As is probably obvious, I don’t really know what I’m doing with this schooling/bitting malarkey.

I have a very short video, this was his second time back in the school with instructor this time. It’s the only clip thats close enough to see anything but you can probably see a bit of the chomping on the long side. Excuse the awful Change of rein, I didn’t plan the jumps very well, thought he did a good job to put up with that and remain reasonable ?

The times he’d been in the school before I had focused on forward and off my leg as he was very backwards, and didn’t care much about anything else. Now trying to be a bit more disciplined to ask for more..

He was also ridden in and broken in with draw reins when in Ireland.

Ah right, so you have a horse that's been hooked up and in and had no choice what to do with his mouth, and didn't have a clue about going forwards. Honestly, hacking and hunting was the best idea of all for him, so don't worry about not schooling much before now.

i would definitely try a Cambridge snaffle on him, offer him a long rein while he feels it, and then see if he'll take a soft contact. I'd also (and this doesn't sit well with a lot of riders!) spend loads and loads of time in walk in the school, whatever bit you are using, just playing with shapes and turns and extending the length of the steps and asking for a lower head carriage.

Many years ago an inspirational instructor yelled at me in a clinic and said "Why are you trotting when you can't even walk yet??" He was dead right!! If you can't do it in walk, you can't do it in anything, and if you get the walk right, then everything else just magically falls into place. Never underestimate the power of walk

 

[Michen]

Ah right, so you have a horse that's been hooked up and in and had no choice what to do with his mouth, and didn't have a clue about going forwards. Honestly, hacking and hunting was the best idea of all for him, so don't worry about not schooling much before now.

i would definitely try a Cambridge snaffle on him, offer him a long rein while he feels it, and then see if he'll take a soft contact. I'd also (and this doesn't sit well with a lot of riders!) spend loads and loads of time in walk in the school, whatever bit you are using, just playing with shapes and turns and extending the length of the steps and asking for a lower head carriage.

Many years ago an inspirational instructor yelled at me in a clinic and said "Why are you trotting when you can't even walk yet??" He was dead right!! If you can't do it in walk, you can't do it in anything, and if you get the walk right, then everything else just magically falls into place. Never underestimate the power of walk

Yes exactly! I was feeling guilty for not schooling him but the difference in him in the school is huge since he’s been hunting etc so it was 100% the right decision. Sure he could be jumping courses and doing dressage tests by now but I don’t think it would have been the right way forward with him.

Agree, actually we spent 80% of the lesson in walk. He has such a fab walk, huge and swingy and effortless.

Fun little chap.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Snow Falcon]

I have few bits in the collection, courtesy of fussy mare. What size
mouth? I'll have a look and see, but have hanging cheek, mullen mouth, a myler type with lozenge.

 

[Michen]

I have few bits in the collection, courtesy of fussy mare. What size
mouth? I'll have a look and see, but have hanging cheek, mullen mouth, a myler type with lozenge.

Ummm he’s in a 5.75 NS but it’s too big tbh, I think more of a 5.5.

 

[Michen]

So an eggbutt or d ring was a definite no. He was less fussy but then went horribly wooden ?‍ Guess my instructor was right!

I then came across a super old, manky, happy mouth with a link (also plastic- the link bit). Voila! He loves it! I should have known baby Bear would like a baby bit.

The mistake was to then take him cantering out hacking in it