Bite me again boy!

What are you doing (grooming? playing? feeding? can he not just be tied up short for whatever?) when he bites? Is he biting other things (e.g. chewing a lead rope) too?
 
Horses "talk" to each other using their teeth. They have no hands and for a sensetive animal such as a horse ,tactile methods of comunication are used . We use the term "Bite"to cover a whole dictionary of horse expressions. It ranges from "I am going to kill you, " to "you are my best pal".I think at a guess what your horse is saying is "You are misbehaving and I think you shouldnt". Quite why he is doing this ,I dont know. The magnesium thing is very true. Stick him on a suplement and perhaps he will sober up.But one thing you can be sure of,he is trying to tell you somthing.
 
Mike007 said:
Horses "talk" to each other using their teeth. They have no hands and for a sensetive animal such as a horse ,tactile methods of comunication are used . We use the term "Bite"to cover a whole dictionary of horse expressions. It ranges from "I am going to kill you, " to "you are my best pal".I think at a guess what your horse is saying is "You are misbehaving and I think you shouldnt". Quite why he is doing this ,I dont know. The magnesium thing is very true. Stick him on a suplement and perhaps he will sober up.But one thing you can be sure of,he is trying to tell you somthing.
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Thank you. :) everyone's been really helpful :D thanks very much :)
 
You say he is welsh, could he be a rig or gelded late he sounds stallion like to me. I would make sure no one gives him treats and then as others have said very firm, it sounds like he could get worse quickly so needs telling sharply that its not on. If it was with me he would have got a smack. My youngster play nips and mouths (mostly lipping) at me but the one time she bit me not badly she got a smack and now she will do it for a reaction so ignoring works. But when they are like that its not play its trying it on and being boss, (suggested by the vertical boxing).

Have to agree with fides it sounds harsh but quick reactions are needed and i have kicked one of mine in the belly when they tried to box me, she never did it again. The way i see it is i am herd leader and they would not stand another boxing them, they would be given a sharp kick as a reminder and i dont think my kick can be as powerful as a horses. At the end of the day it can be dangerous so its being harsh for good really. Also what turnout does he have? Has he been in a herd environment that can teach them a lot about the do's and dont's then you just need to reinforce yourself as the leader and they already know what it means (bit harder when you come across the herd leader, particularly when shes a chestnut mare).

Good luck, its interesting that there seems to be no link with when he is doing it but i think that it just to do with him trying to boss you now, let us know how it goes please, be nice to hear what works. Having read some of the other posts and from experience it can be a welsh a thing, too cheeky for their own good. Angels one minute a devil the next.
 
Brightbay said:
Why is he biting you? Work out the reason, deal with it, and he'll stop. Biting is a communication - he can't speak, so he's saying in the only way he knows "I do not like what is happening". You can choose to suppress or ignore what he's saying and that may stop the biting, but not change how he's feeling - and you can be sure he'll find some other even less desirable way to express his feelings.
Deal with the cause, not the symptoms.
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This....
 
justabob said:
A pony that bites says more about you than it does the pony.
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So what does it say about me? My horse is a biter, usually when being led but occasionally over his stable door. He was headshy when I bought him, though much better now.
He is generally quite mouthy which I discourage and he doesn't get treats very often.
There is no real pattern to the biting. Most of the time he is great and his manners in general are very good but other times he will weave, snake and bite.
I can usually anticipate when he's going to bite and a simple "oy" is enough but when he does make contact it hurts!
 
Fides said:
I have to say when my (then stallion) bit me, and hard, I bit him back. He reared and tried to box me so I lost it and kicked him in the belly (once). I am quite ashamed of my reaction (it was totally instinctive) but he has never done it since - in fact he is the epitome of politeness!
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You shouldn't be ashamed. This is instinctive behaviour from you as head of the herd. Horse knows and respects this. It shouldn't have to happen more than once.

As an aside, we have a huge dog. When, as a puppy (already the size of a lab), she tried to take a biscuit which my young son had just dropped, he immediately growled and BIT the dog, who dropped the biscuit. She wasn't hurt - but she knew she had transgressed.
 
I use a lot of dog training methods with the horses. All are generally great horses but then you get to the little welsh and he likes to take chunks. It's always when there are others walking around the yard. Never when it's just me and him. One of the liveries shouted accross the yard last night "smack that thing now"
 
Sizzlea89 said:
It's always when there are others walking around the yard. Never when it's just me and him.
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Is he used to being in such a busy environment? Has he come from a quieter yard?

How confident are you that he is left alone when you aren't around? I think you said another livery may have been treating him? What about any kids (as he is small so more likely to appeal)? Sounds like you have spotted a bit of a pattern so worth looking into it further I'd say.
 
Tickles said:
Is he used to being in such a busy environment? Has he come from a quieter yard?

How confident are you that he is left alone when you aren't around? I think you said another livery may have been treating him? What about any kids (as he is small so more likely to appeal)? Sounds like you have spotted a bit of a pattern so worth looking into it further I'd say.
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He's been on this yard since a yearling. He's now rising 3 and same horses apart from a mare that arrived recently. They all turn out in mixed herd fine though.
I can bet anything that he's being fed by liveries I'll need to stick a sign up and see how that goes. Iv never fed him by hand because when we got him he was a nipper but it was less often and more playful back then.
There are no kids up at the yard apart from my own and she's 2 and he turns into the softest gentle pony ever. Although my little one slapped his nose once. Maybe she's herd leader to him haha. Wouldn't surprise me tbh she's got the dog doing her bidding and the cat!
 
Sizzlea89 said:
One of the liveries shouted accross the yard last night "smack that thing now"
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How many seconds after the pony went to bite?

If you're going to punish, doing it instantly, without emotion or making it personal, in such a way as to make the horse think he brought it on himself, not too harshly or too feebly, and forgiving completely afterwards is the best way to do it, in my view.

Most importantly, it has to be instant, not one or three or ten seconds later, otherwise you may end up punishing the wrong thing and confusing the horse.
 
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I own a large farm with a lot of horses living on it. Some owners treat their horses, some horses are a pain in the butt for their owners because they treat them. I deal with each and every one of the horses on my farm daily, none behave anything other than impeccable when I'm handling them. The lady who is treating your horse has nothing to do with the respect your horse is, or isn't, showing you. I never treat any horses and I handle them all professionally and they are good. It sounds like you are being too soft on your pony OP, stepping it up a bit sounds like the way to go.

I very rarely smack horses however a bite or a kick-out at me will most certainly result in immediate physical reprimand.
 
Agree that treating is responsible for a lot of bad (i.e. pushy, dangerous, "disrespectful"/"rude") behaviour. There's nothing inherently wrong with treating, but it has to be done in the right way and with consideration given to what one is training the horse to do. Random food rewards may be nice for the horse but they risk creating unwanted behaviours. Targeted properly, however, treating does no harm at all and can be highly useful and beneficial in training.
 
fburton said:
Agree that treating is responsible for a lot of bad (i.e. pushy, dangerous, "disrespectful"/"rude") behaviour. There's nothing inherently wrong with treating, but it has to be done in the right way and with consideration given to what one is training the horse to do. Random food rewards may be nice for the horse but they risk creating unwanted behaviours. Targeted properly, however, treating does no harm at all and can be highly useful and beneficial in training.
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I agree. But would add that there are some horses that can never be treated or they will display aggressive, pushy behaviour. I do treat most of the horses here (so long as their owners agree with it). I treat them for good behaviour, after a schooling session, when turning out (if they are prone to shooting off it will usually cure them of the habit), and for training. I also occasionally use clicker training. But, there ARE some horses that should never be treated. Though they are rare. But horses can also learn the difference between people who might treat them and those that don't. So the youngster I described above is now lovely for me to handle in every way, but he is not for his owner, who he does not even let stroke him. The reason being, he gets angry if she does anything with him other than treat him. She knows this, and is trying to abstain but often just can't resist!
 
Wagtail said:
I agree. But would add that there are some horses that can never be treated or they will display aggressive, pushy behaviour.
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Yes, for sure - and it pretty quickly becomes evident which ones those are. Like you, I would say they are pretty rare. Of the rest, there is a spectrum of how easily they are "corrupted" by careless treating - some remain (preter)naturally polite when it comes to taking food, even when it's given randomly and in the most unsafe ways, while others become instant pests unless the treats are precisely targeted and there is a rigorous, consistent policy of rewarding non-mugging, "respectful" behaviour.
 
Wagtail said:
I agree. But would add that there are some horses that can never be treated or they will display aggressive, pushy behaviour.
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I do wonder about this as some years ago my sister worked hard to learn clicker training and used it with a very bargy, upreditable horse with great results for months, until suddenly one day the horse decided she wanted the bum bag! Possibly something had been missed in the training but no more CT for that horse.
 
Ok so iv spent the day with him. He tried to bite me twice and I pinched him immediately and reinforced with saying no at the same time. Didn't attempt to bite at all after the second try. We will see tonight after a break how he is doing. I do a lot with him, I would take him everywhere with me if I could haha. But fingers crossed he stops biting me. He really enjoyed his wee walk through the town and down to the hay field. Was great and I didn't come home with any more bite bruises haha.
 
So we had a good wee spell of no biting up until 4 days ago. I am now sporting a large full bicep bruise. I know why I got this bite though. I was taking him out to the field and was having a bit of trouble getting the first gate open. (It's a 2 gate system so that there's no escapes near the busy road) there's a large German shepherd that is sometimes in the dog run along the side of the field. He doesn't usually bother with the dog but he's recently had to be moved fields because a member of the public thought the dog was attacking my boy. They were actually playing in their own way. He wanted to play with the dog but wasn't allowed and all I can think is that he was trying to take a stand. No mum I'm playing! So I got bitten. Baby steps but we were getting there. Oh and we did move yards. He is doing a million times better at the new yard. There's more grazing and less people. Plus he has a highland cow called twizzler for a field companion until my friend can move her gelding up at the end of the month another wee welsh section A. The two of them get along so well! Will be a great improvement for both ponies.
 
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As others have said he is being a little toad! Mine would be getting a short sharp smack. Bad behaviour I don't tolerate. I'm not saying go and beat him with a stick but he needs to know that you wont tolerate him being a thug.
 
Sizzlea89 said:
So we had a good wee spell of no biting up until 4 days ago. I am now sporting a large full bicep bruise. I know why I got this bite though. I was taking him out to the field and was having a bit of trouble getting the first gate open. (It's a 2 gate system so that there's no escapes near the busy road) there's a large German shepherd that is sometimes in the dog run along the side of the field. He doesn't usually bother with the dog but he's recently had to be moved fields because a member of the public thought the dog was attacking my boy. They were actually playing in their own way. He wanted to play with the dog but wasn't allowed and all I can think is that he was trying to take a stand. No mum I'm playing! So I got bitten. Baby steps but we were getting there. Oh and we did move yards. He is doing a million times better at the new yard. There's more grazing and less people. Plus he has a highland cow called twizzler for a field companion until my friend can move her gelding up at the end of the month another wee welsh section A. The two of them get along so well! Will be a great improvement for both ponies.
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Sounds like he learnt quickly that biting has consequences! You need to keep it up though, EVERY time he bites, pinch him, no exceptions, even when you know why he's done it.


Keep up the good work :)
 
So tell livery who is feeding treats to bug off and look after her own, silly moo, why do folk feel the need to feed other folks horses treats.
 
STRIKER said:
So tell livery who is feeding treats to bug off and look after her own, silly moo, why do folk feel the need to feed other folks horses treats.
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I don't understand the feeding other peoples animals at all!
I have moved away from the liveries to a private farm with more grazing and only 2 stables. The second stable is to be used by my friend and her pony at the end of the month. So it will be quieter and less hassle. Thankfully a family member has restored stables on her land for me to use so it's worked out better for all of us.
 
I'm a skin pinch/twist and never hand feed person. Make sure no-one on yard hand feeds him ever, or all your attempts to discipline will likely be in vain. If you want to reward him give him positive attention, no reason to treat feed.
 
My old tb would bite in playfulness, you could practically see the grin on his face, but in the wild the stallion would not tolerate that and would chase the horse. The best method i found was to have him on a lunge and the first time he tried a bite i would say no and back him up, if he tried again he got lunged until he stopped.
 
Iownayetti said:
A smack on the nose at least and if it happens again Hiss ,growl and bite back...you have to show you are in charge
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This, my sec c colt was a horrid biter when I first had him. Gave him a tap on the nose, growled and have bitten him back. he is now mostly well behaved until OH plies him full of treats. I growl he backs up.
Having his balls off helped alot.
 
One of mine was a terrible biter while he was teething and smacking and shouting just made him bite back harder! In the end to avoiding us ending up in a full on fight i jst ignored him and completely stopped any treats. It worked. Now on the odd occasion he sneaks up behind me for a nibble i jst walk away and ignore him (now hes no longer teething or getting treats its an attention thing)
Its not acceptable for other liveries to be hand feeding your pony treats especially if they are aware of his biting!
 
I would be furious if another person at the yard I am at started giving my horses treats without asking me first and I certainly would not dream of doing it myself. One of my mares used to get seriously aggressive if she was given treats so I ended up putting the bars up on her stable door and putting a sign up saying beware she bites. More bad habits are created by rewarding with a treat at the wrong moment which enforces the bad behaviour so more of a struggle to put right.
 
Ive had one biter and he stopped very quickly with a sharp smack and a roar at him when he did have a go, but you need to be able to judge yourself whether this will work with yours, as there are some it wont work with and might make the situation worse.
 
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