Biting...a why and a solution needed - long

alsxx

alsxx

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Well tonight my gelding bit me for the second time in about 3 weeks. I now have a nice bright red raised welt on my shoulder/arm (was wearing a t-shirt) to match the scar I have on my arm from last time - last time I had a HUGE swollen and bruised arm for about a week which suitably impressed my non-horsey work colleagues.

I simply cannot understand why he is doing this. 99% of the time he is an angel (ok he can put his ears back and chuck a leg out occaisonally, but then so does my mare, and I can live with that). He has got better behaved when saddling and when rugging up (rugging particulary he was hugely defensive) to the point where he just stands and is fab. He's fine to handle and fine in the field. I am cautious of him in the stable, particulary when he is eating, and will always give his side a quick pat etc if I need to move round behind him to let him know what I am doing/where I am. Other than that he is no bother, and to be honest I don't mind keeping one eye on him in the stable really as some horses are just sharp and thats that. Oh for anyone that doesn't know he is an ex-racer so I do kind of forgive his sharpness.

So tonight he was eating his dinner in the stable, also had a section of hay on the floor, I walked over and opened the door ajar - he sticks his ears back and kind of bars the way a tad then goes back to the bucket, which is what he always does - hence why I don't barge straight in but let him see me and move in gradually. Stepped inside the stable, head up again with ears back - I must have been in there about 30 seconds or so - just stood there by the door giving him chance to settle (as I always do), moved my right arm round to bolt the door and in that split second he has grabbed me, let go and flew to the back of the stable so couldn't really reprimand him other than yell, as had his bum to me (Sorry I'm not interested in hearing from the fluffy pony patting brigade, if a horse goes to bite or kick me I will reprimand it instantly either by a smack or a boot to a padded area).

After that he was fine
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and his normal self, poor sod even got subjected to a serious mud fever scab picking session as I was so mad at him but to be fair to him he just stood there and let me get on with it...

He's a normally 'nice' horse not a nasty one, I understand he gets a bit defensive sometimes and I'm working on that, and there has been a big improvement, but these two times he has bitten me I can honestly say he meant it. I really cant put my finger on why he is doing this and I am starting to feel like maybe I am doing something wrong. I guess I could manage it by not ever going in the stable whenever he is eating (oh the first time he bit me he also had hay on the floor, and these 2 occaisons have been the only time he has had hay so I am wondering if maybe that is the reason) but thats not practical, and I have never had a horse I couldn't go into the stable with whenever there is food in there, plus I can imagine that would probably make him worse. I don't plan on feeding him hay anymore unless he is in for the night, and then I guess I will have to get his stable ready, change rugs outside and bolt him in for the night. I think this is a shame as tonight he was in for an hour cooling off after a schooling session (he's not clipped) so he had some hay to munch on to keep him busy.

Tonight when he lunged for me he did so at face height to start with and I'm quite worried one day he is going to bite my face....

Anyway suggestions would be welcome as I really need to nip this in the bud now.
 
The times that he's bitten you - what factors does each occasion have in common? Is it always around food for instance? How long have you had him?
 
oh dear, i hope your ok, he does sound very possesive of his food or maybe a little box proud? We had a german horse last year that had been 'farmed' it had to fight for food from being very young so if you entered the stable whilst she was eating, you became dinner! But is he not doing this all the time? is it just every now and then?
I think you are doing the right thing but shouting and reacting to the bite, i have always been of the opinion a slap to the nose in proportion to the strength of the bite works but he obviously knows he has done wrong because he is fleeing to the back of the stable before you can do it. I think you may have to continue as you are being firm and reprimanding him consistently until he learns that you are no threat to his food and biting is unacceptable. Good luck X
 
I do not want to worry you .............but I had a horse that bit for 'no reason'...........we eventually had him fully checked and he a a shadowing in his eye - not sure of the correct term but apparently worse than blindness.
Once we were of his condition we changed how we handled him, approached him etc.......even where we placed his food.
The vet advised the biting was a reaction of fear and defending himself....poor boy, I felt so guilty of all the times we smacked him for biting.
 
The only real similarity has been having the hay on the floor. The first time he bit me he just had hay, tonight he had hay plus his feed. I go in with him everynight whilst he is eating his tea and he's normally fine.

I changed him from Alfa-A oil to plain Alfa A about 3 and a half weeks ago, so initally wondered if it was that (he had a really grumpy 24 hour period and was then fine again), and put him on hi-fi, gradually changed him back onto Alfa-A again and there was no change in his behaviour and hasn't been until tonight.

The only other similarity is both times have been at weekends when I have done them whilst its still light. Can you see I'm scratching around here trying to think?

I've had him since June, and he's been absolutely fine up until 3 weeks ago and then in between both occaisons of biting.
 
Anya - he had his eyes looked at when vetted and they were fine.

I'm just feeling a bit stuck as on one hand I dont blame him for being grumpy, he's raced and well who can blame him? But at the same time I'm only ever nice to him (firm but kind) and it is frustrating as its seemingly so random so I just don't know where to start really.
 
We have a lovely lovely mare who is as nice as pie. She attacked me in the stable once several years ago grabbing my shoulder and leaving me with massive haematoma front and back.

I always hay and water at 10.00pm and usually pick up a few droppings with the poop scoop. On this occassion I saw her watching me then she lunged at me and got hold of my shoulder. I terrorised her throwing the poop scoop at her and cornering her with aggressive body language.

She has never ever attempted to bite me again. I am still mystified as to why she did it.
 
I don't really have any words of wisdom, but just to say I do feel for you. They are blooming scary when they fly at you like that.

My dad had a horse called The Sod (he did have another name but The Sod was so appropriate!). I remember one day he was loose in the yard and I just walked across, not that close to him, and felt him watching me. He suddenly flew at me and snapped at my face. It was so close it touched but I must have instinctively moved. It would not have been pretty if he had connected, he meant it
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Maybe the key is to look for that 'still and watching' thing they seem to do before lunging at you. Sorry, not a great help, but please be very careful around him
 
Some of these replies are sending shivers down my spine. I knew a gelding who was like this - one minute you'd feel him watching you in this weird way, the next he'd go for you. He'd either bite or rear and strike out and always seemed to aim for peoples faces. I think that even my mare knew there was something strange about him; I remember one day they were out in the field together and I was poo picking, when she saw him watching me and very deliberately put herself between the two of us and wouldn't let him come over.

I hope you get to the bottom of it and if you can find a trigger for his behaviour, avoid it all costs. If he were mine, I'd avoid going into the stable with him loose at all and do all handling with him tied up outside. I know its a huge inconvenience - I did it for a long time with mine when I first had her as she could kick in the stable - but you may find that the problem more or less resolves itself if you avoid the triggers. Bearing in mind that you haven't had him long, you might find as he trusts you more and becomes more confident or whatever this behaviour stops and you can resume normal handling. Good luck anyway and sorry not to be of more help.
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I have a rather attractive coat with metal currycombs down the arms which helped with my ex racer who was a little handy with his teeth. He was also hand fed treats when he was out and about so that stopped staright away. I also had another horse who was pretty handy back and front who went to bite me one day when I was untacking and I still had my whip in my hand - he got a wallop across the front of his chest and never tried it again * puts tin hat and runs from the fluffy brigade *
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it was just instinctive and I don't make a habit of it but at 17.3hh when he bit it hurt
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Thanks for everyone's suggestions. The last 2 are quire frightening! I cant say as I have noticed him watching me, as both times he's been busy eating....I think I am going to have to feed him either outside (tied up) or feed tied up in the stable with the door open. Fortunately they are living out 24/7 for as much of the year as possible (although was planning on bringing in Thursday, Friday and Saturday because of the fireworks). I guess when I do bring him in overnight it will just have to be a case of have the box ready with feed and hay in, and shutting him in for the night and not going back in until the morning.

One thing that did spring to mind though, when I first got him we were at a different yard, his stable had a chain across the front so I hardly ever shut the door unless he was in for the night, and it was also quite light (there was a clear bit in the roof above his box) he was always impeccably behaved, we have since moved and the stables are darker than before, and I haven't really been putting him in the box for a couple of months, but tieing up outside - started to put him in there about 5/6 weeks ago for feeding etc, so maybe its something in the stable he's not liking. I may try a chain across the front when I need to go in and out and see if that makes any difference.
 
I have a great solution for this assuming there isn't a medical reason behind the biting.

It takes a bit of an open mind and sounds really stupid but works a treat.

A jif lemon - the squeezy type.

Keep it in your hand and when he goes to bite squirt it in his mouth. Seriously its fab. Turbo would nip me every time i had to put my hands through the gate to unlock the padlock on the inside.

It doesn't hurt them, its not cruel (its lemon juice for goodness sake) if your super quick and they don't actually see you doing it he won't associate you with it at all. Even if he does its not like he will carry negative connotions with anything else - not likely you'll be using a lemon to groom /school etc.

Its honestly worth giving it a go - just mind his eyes.
 
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