Biting question - Snaffle/ french link/ ultra loose ring/ loseng

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Horsekaren

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My boy is ridden in a eggbut single link snaffle, was previously in a full cheek snaffle (i think he was in this since being broken to ride) ... not sure why.

i'm thinking, only thinking for now as i know i have lots to overcome before chopping and changing bits.
buuuuut..... he has always struggled to relax into a contact, he steps under nicely, full of impulsion but he wont relax into my hands or anyone else's hands for that matter. He will hold his head high and stick his nose out. He isn't strong so he doesn't need a strong bit.

I was reading up on bits and wondered if it could in fact be that is it uncomfortable for him. He is sound, no tightness, has had breathing issues which are being worked on but even before that started he still wouldn't relax.

Has anyone else found their horse struggled in a single link bit? or vise versa and hated a double link?
I am looking at the below-
  • French link
  • french link with losenge
  • ultra loose ring
  • french link hanging cheek


just wondered what peoples experience was with them?

I know the bit will not make him work into an outline but i will kick myself is the issue is as simple as the bit pinching!!!
 
My horse does not go well in a single link and I think it is because he has a large tongue. He goes better in a Myler Comfort Snaffle Low Port plus I've recently had success with a Harmony double link eggbut snaffle (although this one is so light I don't have the best of brakes but its fine for flatwork/dressage and he relaxes into an outline). In the past I tried a loose ring NS double linked snaffle with lozenge which he hated (again I think the large tongue didn't help).
I also found switching from a standard bridle to a micklem helped.

A previous horse I owned hated having a bit in his mouth so much I ended up in a bitless. This worked beautifully on him. This might be an option for you too.

Good luck!
 
What is his tounge like? Big and fleshy? If so he might like something with a port
Have a ring up of the bit bank as they will advise you
 
yes i suppose it is big and fleshy.
I have read that cob nose pokers often do will in slim ie 14mm double link hanging cheek bits :/

Thanks i will give the bit bank a call :)

Are there touch things as bitters? like saddlers ?
 
Horsekaren said:
yes i suppose it is big and fleshy.
I have read that cob nose pokers often do will in slim ie 14mm double link hanging cheek bits :/

Thanks i will give the bit bank a call :)

Are there touch things as bitters? like saddlers ?
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My Harmony double link snaffle is 12mm and my thick tongued cob goes nicely forward in it. I was worried it would be a little too thin but that has not been an issue. My Myler is a low port and its a hanging cheek. He goes well in that one too but not as forward as he is in the Harmony. I believe the lady from Harmony does bitting clinics btw.
 
OldieButGoodie said:
My Harmony double link snaffle is 12mm and my thick tongued cob goes nicely forward in it. I was worried it would be a little too thin but that has not been an issue. My Myler is a low port and its a hanging cheek. He goes well in that one too but not as forward as he is in the Harmony. I believe the lady from Harmony does bitting clinics btw.
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that's good to know, thanks :D
 
Just as a response to other replies- my guy is half cob half Welsh so a chunkier type and he prefers a single joint or a French link. Absolutely hates ports. He is schooled correctly now but when he was younger an eggbutt was completely useless for him, he just didn't listen to it at all, so he is always ridden in a loose ring and the difference between them is amazing.
 
A single jointed snaffle is a great bit. It's gentle. It's no wonder people seek "snaffle mouthed" horses and ponies.

It's just a real shame not many people know how to use a single jointed snaffle, nevermind teach a horse the actions of one.

If a horse braces against a snaffle it's commonly because the hands are ungiving and do not work independently to "aid" a true bend and you haven't been able to seperate the bend without losing the shoulder. Therefore, when you use your hands "together" it will fold and hurt. You are meant to use each side of the rein to support the action of the other, otherwise you're using the same aid each side and it's quite confusing to a horse.
 
My late horse that was given to me as a broken down insurance write off came with a jointed snaffle and he was really fussy in his mouth and would periodically yank on the reins. I changed him to a slim ported pelham and he was happy in that. He was mannerly and didn't need extra control just a bit that suited him better.
 
It sounds like he isn't fussy in the contact and is taking it forwards etc. As such it is likely just a schooling issue which will come with time but as said previously you have to absolutely be aware that with his type he may be more comfortable in front of the vertical and that is both ok and better for him so long as he is working over his back.
 
tallyho! said:
A single jointed snaffle is a great bit. It's gentle. It's no wonder people seek "snaffle mouthed" horses and ponies.

It's just a real shame not many people know how to use a single jointed snaffle, nevermind teach a horse the actions of one.
.
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It is only a gentle bit if the conformation of the horses mouth suits it! If it doesn’t then all it will do is cause pain.

My old Connemara had a low palette, fleshy tongue and fleshy bars. With a single jointed snaffle he started head shaking as soon as it was in his mouth, if you actually rode him in it he would go vertical!
In a double jointed snaffle he was fully capable of doing and scoring well in an advanced medium dressage test.

A single jointed bit with even the lightest pressure would hit the roof of his mouth and pinch his tongue. Heck even just hanging loose in his mouth it was uncomfortable for him.
Bitting as a science has moved on because we now understand the physics of each bit better and how it interacts with the conformation of a horses mouth
 
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A snaffle, of any variation, is only gentle if the hands on the other ends of the reins know what they are doing. This is also true of any type of bit. Snaffles, in my experience and observation, are very, very often instruments of blunt force and trauma used by people who proudly proclaim how "kind" they are being by using a "mild" bit. The only reason people get away with it is because horses are less likely to react in an extreme way then to curb-type bits.
 
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conniegirl said:
It is only a gentle bit if the conformation of the horses mouth suits it! If it doesn’t then all it will do is cause pain.

My old Connemara had a low palette, fleshy tongue and fleshy bars. With a single jointed snaffle he started head shaking as soon as it was in his mouth, if you actually rode him in it he would go vertical!
In a double jointed snaffle he was fully capable of doing and scoring well in an advanced medium dressage test.

A single jointed bit with even the lightest pressure would hit the roof of his mouth and pinch his tongue. Heck even just hanging loose in his mouth it was uncomfortable for him.
Bitting as a science has moved on because we now understand the physics of each bit better and how it interacts with the conformation of a horses mouth
Click to expand...

Ok well I can see where you’re coming from but I still believe that snaffle get a bad reputation. They are the mildest bit, but not many people are taught the”science” of the humble snaffle. Hence the myriad of bits nowadays.

I used to hate snaffles and now I school all mine in one. It’s not meant to hit the palate at all, if it’s doing that, it’s being used wrong.
 
Mine came in a loose ring with a lozenge. I changed him into a baucher single joint while I was training him not to lean on my hands. After he learned to carry himself I changed him back. He definitely prefers the loose ring lozenge. He's much softer in it
 
tallyho! said:
Ok well I can see where you’re coming from but I still believe that snaffle get a bad reputation. They are the mildest bit, but not many people are taught the”science” of the humble snaffle. Hence the myriad of bits nowadays.

I used to hate snaffles and now I school all mine in one. It’s not meant to hit the palate at all, if it’s doing that, it’s being used wrong.
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How can it be being used wrong when it is simply hanging in the mouth, no pressure at all? Rider not even mounted up yet?
A lot of horses mouths cannot take a single jointed snaffle.

I don’t think it is the mildest bit out there, many believe that that a double jointed bit is milder and certainly for many horses mouth conformation it is!
 
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conniegirl said:
How can it be being used wrong when it is simply hanging in the mouth, no pressure at all? Rider not even mounted up yet?
A lot of horses mouths cannot take a single jointed snaffle.

I don’t think it is the mildest bit out there, many believe that that a double jointed bit is milder and certainly for many horses mouth conformation it is!
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I've no idea in your old boys case conniegirl. It's a shame many horses have a bad experience of snaffles, but to blame the snaffle itself is probably akin to the old adage "a bad craftsman always blames his tools". I'm not saying this is true in your case by any stretch of the imagination. I appreciate that some horses prefer different bits.

My original point was to highlight the fact that the snaffle is a much misused, misunderstood bit unfortunately and it needn't be so. By saying that I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for not using it, or intentionally get peoples backs up.

In many of the old masters books like Udo Burger, Gueriniere, Podhjasky etc. a lot is said about the snaffle and why it's such a good bit and how it should be used before the curb is introduced. I suppose it's just the old purists like me that appreciate it now.

Nevermind.
 
tallyho! said:
I've no idea in your old boys case conniegirl. It's a shame many horses have a bad experience of snaffles, but to blame the snaffle itself is probably akin to the old adage "a bad craftsman always blames his tools". I'm not saying this is true in your case by any stretch of the imagination. I appreciate that some horses prefer different bits.
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Or maybe other people have knowledge of horses and ponies that have less than perfect mouth conformation. Again, not sure how I was misusing a tool by simply putting it in the horses mouth?

my Connemara was quite happy in a Cambridge mouth Pelham but simply did not have room in his mouth for a double set, unfortunately a Pelham can’t be used in dressage and at that point you couldn’t go further than med in a snaffle, though the pony would have done so!

He is not the only horse I’ve met like this, just the best example as he had an extreme reaction to anything that caused him pain.

Have you seen the bruising that can be caused to the mouth is a single jointed snaffle is used in a mouth that doesn’t suit one? There is a reason a lot of horses are a lot more settled in the mouth in double jointed or straight bar snaffles.

A snaffle should always be used before a curb is introduced, it just does not have to be a single jointed snaffle.

Personally I’m a big convert to the French link snaffle and use it on most of my horses, though my warmblood and Arab were happy enough in a single jointed bit most of my natives or indeed my latest boy who is an IDx have been much happier in a double jointed bit.
 
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ester said:
It sounds like he isn't fussy in the contact and is taking it forwards etc. As such it is likely just a schooling issue which will come with time but as said previously you have to absolutely be aware that with his type he may be more comfortable in front of the vertical and that is both ok and better for him so long as he is working over his back.
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Yep this.
Although he may be better in a different style of bit eventually, he doesn't sound like you will be able to really tell at the moment.

In general I put everything in a hanging cheek French link/lozenge snaffle to start as a have never met one who took exception to that kind of bit.
 
conniegirl said:
Or maybe other people have knowledge of horses and ponies that have less than perfect mouth conformation. Again, not sure how I was misusing a tool by simply putting it in the horses mouth?

my Connemara was quite happy in a Cambridge mouth Pelham but simply did not have room in his mouth for a double set, unfortunately a Pelham can’t be used in dressage and at that point you couldn’t go further than med in a snaffle, though the pony would have done so!

He is not the only horse I’ve met like this, just the best example as he had an extreme reaction to anything that caused him pain.

Have you seen the bruising that can be caused to the mouth is a single jointed snaffle is used in a mouth that doesn’t suit one? There is a reason a lot of horses are a lot more settled in the mouth in double jointed or straight bar snaffles.

A snaffle should always be used before a curb is introduced, it just does not have to be a single jointed snaffle.

Personally I’m a big convert to the French link snaffle and use it on most of my horses, though my warmblood and Arab were happy enough in a single jointed bit most of my natives or indeed my latest boy who is an IDx have been much happier in a double jointed bit.
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I've seen bruising caused by bad hands, yes.
 
tallyho! said:
I've seen bruising caused by bad hands, yes.
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Bits can only operate when they are attached to "hands"; the action of the bit is a function of the hands on the opposite end of the reins. What is wrong is the use of the bit, occasioned by the person operating it. What is majorly wrong is the belief that the bit itself is either the problem or the solution, whereas it is the training of the rider that is usually the problem.

Snaffle bits are NOT "mild" when they are badly used, which they are depressingly frequently.
 
tallyho! said:
I've no idea in your old boys case conniegirl. It's a shame many horses have a bad experience of snaffles, but to blame the snaffle itself is probably akin to the old adage "a bad craftsman always blames his tools". I'm not saying this is true in your case by any stretch of the imagination. I appreciate that some horses prefer different bits.

My original point was to highlight the fact that the snaffle is a much misused, misunderstood bit unfortunately and it needn't be so. By saying that I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for not using it, or intentionally get peoples backs up.

In many of the old masters books like Udo Burger, Gueriniere, Podhjasky etc. a lot is said about the snaffle and why it's such a good bit and how it should be used before the curb is introduced. I suppose it's just the old purists like me that appreciate it now.

Nevermind.
Click to expand...


There are many kinds of snaffles, not all single jointed. As those you cite say, a snaffle should be used before the curb is introduced. I have always taken that to mean *any* snaffle, not just a single-jointed snaffle.
 
Being a history buff I find it interesting that the first snaffles were lozenge-type double jointed (there were some single jointed too, but mostly the former), and that's 2,000 years ago!
 
Cortez said:
Bits can only operate when they are attached to "hands"; the action of the bit is a function of the hands on the opposite end of the reins. What is wrong is the use of the bit, occasioned by the person operating it. What is majorly wrong is the belief that the bit itself is either the problem or the solution, whereas it is the training of the rider that is usually the problem.

Snaffle bits are NOT "mild" when they are badly used, which they are depressingly frequently.
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You put it more eloquently than I ever could have, thank you.
 
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