Biting - separation anxiety?

dollymix

dollymix

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I would love some advice from a canine behaviourist if there is anyone on this forum or anyone who has had experiences with dogs biting, especially when people are trying to leave, or someone comes to the door.

It is regarding my parents’ border collie Jasper.

As a bit of background, he is approx. 10 years. We don’t know exactly as he was a rescue. He is a fairly timid boy generally, in lots of ways (he does not like puddles, is a bit wary of other dogs, although a lot better than he used to be etc) but has always been fairly vocal…i.e he grumbles/growls/whines a lot when playing, including with toys, people or other dogs.

He is very soft though. We believe an old lady had him from a pup and treated him like a lap dog – he literally wants to sit on you and have cuddles.

He can be a bit of a pain at my parents’, whines and grumbles a lot. But when he used to stay with me and my dog during my parents’ holidays etc, he was much better, didn’t whine nad would shut up when told. He does listen to me much better than he does my mum and dad.

However, after my marriage breakup, he can’t stay with me whilst they are away any more (I rent and the landlord won’t allow it), so in the past couple of years, he has visited kennels whilst they are away.

I think this is where the issues got worse. Almost like he has some sort of separation anxiety?

In the last 18 months he has developed an issue where when someone leaves the house, he is constantly around their legs and as time has gone on, he has started trying to ‘grab’ something, be it a trouser leg, or a bag you’re carrying etc.

When I leave, I walk to the centre of the sitting room, make him sit and wait, gather my stuff, walk to the door and he does stay. But the second the door closes I can hear him run to the door and then he jumps up at the window whining, despite my parents telling him to be quiet and get down. When they leave the house they either have to ignore him running all around them and nipping at them, or he will go part way up the stairs when you say ‘bed’.

My parents haven’t really done much to manage the behaviour when it started and it is now 100% worse as two weeks ago, my mum got bitten! Someone came to the door and he ran over to the front door and starting whining etc. She went to take his collar and he snapped at her – biting her twice! Grazing the skin pretty badly. She says it was very purposeful bites, not nipping.

Understandably, she is quite shaken by this and now says she is a bit scared of him. Ironically, he has been on best behaviour ever since.

She took him to the vet and had a very frank conversation. Vet said he wouldn’t try to persuade her against it if she decided to PTS, and did tell her that once a dog bites, they are much more likely to do it again.

The other option is a canine behaviourist visit (at £600!!!!) or to try supplement calmers. She has agreed to try something called Nurtacalm. He has two tablets and wears an attachment on his collar. There is also a plug in at the house.

In my mind, he thinks he is top dog at my parents. Although they tell him off, my dad shouts (so I think he is desensitised to it) and my mum doesn’t tell him off with enough feeling. I don’t shout at him at all, but have a tone of voice and manner with him when he is misbehaving that seems to work.

If I could take him myself I would (landlord won’t allow) as I don’t think he would bite me as he respects me fairly well. Or am I fooling myself?

I am hoping the Nutracalm will start to help, but would love to hear other people’s experiences.
 
My old collie used to do this- I don't have much time to reply as on way to airport. Basically the trick is to use distraction techniques at these times-stop the behaviour using a cue ( I used a throw chain) and then reward the behaviour you want. Am sure someone will describe it better but any sort of negative punishment needs avoiding or using extremely carefully or the behaviour could get worse. You might be right in thinking he thinks he's top dog, but he won't be happy in that role if that makes sense?
 
Reading through your post to me it sounds like the only problem is the way your parents are allowing the dog to behave.

We got a new puppy about 10 months ago & we also had his brother from the same littler to look after whilst his owners were moving house due to flooding. Although a little nervous, he was very well socialised, walked behind me on the lead at all times, knew the rules of playtime with our other 3 dogs and went to sleep in his cage when told. He was fully house trained, good recall and knew basic commands.

He went back to live with his owners when they got their home sorted and they said he is a nightmare! He bites them, doesn't listen to anything they say, does his business all over the house, barks constantly and can't be let off the lead as he runs away, he also is aggressive towards other dogs. Nothing like they way her was when we had him. He came back to us for more training when he was six months old. It took us about 10 minutes of making sure he knew we were the boss and he couldn't run ragged round the house and he settled an behaved the whole time we had him. Owners were told how to re-enforce the rules and boundaries we had set for him and stick to them. 5 months later and he is totally uncontrollable by them. They even said he should be pts because they can't manage him.

It makes me despair because our pup is very good. The only fault he has is that he is a bit obsessed with birds, apart form that I can't fault him.

I am a strong believer that using the correct tone of voice and body language lets a dog know exactly how you feel. No shouting or beating is ever necessary with my 3. It's all about the dog having respect for you & if they don't then you get these sorts of problems. By not addressing the bad behaviour, the whining, running round their legs or just ignoring him won't work. The dog needs to be directed to do the right thing.

I was always taught that a dog needs to feel like it has to earn respect from you or will be an outcast, just as they would in a wild pack. For example, when our pups brother came to stay from the second time, he was reprimanded by harsh tone of voice and a strong stance until he went to his bed and laid down. Then when calm he would get a treat and a stroke, repeating whenever necessary. He soon learnt that if he came into our living room calmly and laid down, he would get the attention he was craving. If he entered like a bat out of hell it was straight back to his bed by himself until he learnt what we wanted from him.

This dog sounds like he would benefit from a stronger 'boss' in the house, instead of being allowed to do what he wanted. I'm no expert and I'm sure other people will have better ideas, but this is what I find works for me and my dogs.

Also, I hate the term, 'Once a dog bites, they will do it again.' All dogs have a capability of biting, it's just management of their behaviour that can help lessen the change of a dog biting you.
 
Purely my opinion but it sounds like grabbing/mouthing/an anxiety response, the stress is pushing him over threshold. He can't squeeze a stressball or jiggle worry beads as he doesn't have hands. So he uses his mouth. The same as a lot of sporting dogs who get very wound up before and after they perform and need to chew a ball or a lead.
Does he have any toys you could redirect him onto?

If he was biting and intending to cause harm there would be claret everywhere and your mum would be in A and E. If he was snapping at her to go away and leave him alone, and she did, while understandable on a human level, means he may have learned that this is something that works for him.
The first thing I would do is not allow him access to the front door or any busy entry and exit points as these are common flashpoint areas and where dogs can get stressed. He's an older dog and he sounds insecure and conflicted. I'd put a light line on his collar, not long enough to tangle but so he can be guided firmly away without having to put hands near the danger zone.

You need someone to come to the house and observe all the behaviours, this won't be fixed over the Internet.
We don't know what exactly your parents are doing right or wrong or how the dog is in person. It's really easy for us to miss signals from our own dogs when we know them and they live with us.

They could have been teaching him for years the cues and signals for when they were leaving the house or making a fuss of him when they left or came back and the stress has been building up. I almost always feed my dog when I'm leaving so he doesn't make a negative connection, for example.

He's ten years old, there may be an underlying health issue or he may be losing some of his senses.
 
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dollymix said:
……..

It is regarding my parents’ border collie Jasper.

…….. .
Click to expand...

I'm not a 'behaviorist' but have had a great many sheepdogs over the years. Behaviour patterns become installed, and some can be quite bizarre, and the reason is all so often that the dog doesn't have anything to occupy its mind, from a work/focus aspect. The main reason is frustration.

Those sheepdogs which have a marked propensity for work, but don't clearly display their feelings, can be a nightmare, until the day arrives when their craving is satisfied. 10 years of age is simply too late to start, sadly, and I'm sure that neither you nor your parents have much inclination to start either!

The problem is now worsened and understandably because your mother will now be fearful of handling the dog, and as he now seems to have the upper hand, I would suggest that the next time that he makes contact, it may well be more serious. You can waste the staggering sum of £600 on an expert if you like, but at 10 years of age and with what would seem to be a worsening situation, I'd very much doubt that any worthwhile solution can be found without a complete re-think on the part of your parents.

Try 'calming' additives if you wish, but again I would be most surprised to hear that they work and have any material effect upon the dog's behaviour pattern. I'd suggest that your vet's advice may be the only worthwhile solution. Sorry.

Alec.
 
Try pming Cayla, reading your story even if you hadnt said I would have known it was a Collie, he sounds a miserable anxious dog with no direction, not only do you need a behaviourist but a good trainer as well.
 
Is the behaviourist asking for £600.00 upfront? Or is that the estimated cost of sorting out the problem? It seems rather expensive. I have used a top behaviourist who charges £60.00 for a session in the dog' s home. An experienced person should be able to assess the dog and give your parents pointers on how to deal with this. You would then be able to decide whether it is advisable to try and work on sorting it out or it is better to PTS for both your parents and the dog' s sake.
 
agreed, although its more than 10 years since I had a behaviourist out it was no way near that sort of price, in fat it was less than £200 for as many sessions as needed during that dog's lifetime. I believe that having that last behaviourist out, gave the dog a better quality of life in the last couple of years (when it was him and me, we had a ball hiking throughout Scotland and Wales, the ready made family I acquired was difficult for him).

my dog had many issues, not many were of my making (rescue) and I've said before, if faced with the same dog again I wouldn't persevere but have it PTS. So I wouldn't judge anyone for doing that whatsoever but a behaviourist will give your parents tools to manage the behaviour, if it can be managed.
 
I have had working collies all my life (currently have 4). Agree with Alec , this IS fixable but only with a determined and consistent effort from your parents. Are they willing and able to do this? It’s a relatively simple thing to divert the behaviour; give him something to grab and hold that is his instead at such times of anxiety. £600 for a behaviourist is a lot. If you PM me I can try and help you find a ‘collie person’ in your area that would come and help for a lot less.
 
It really does sound as if your parents need training as well as the dog.

I have an (ex) working bc and it took her some while to get used to being in the house. She is nervous of strangers (and her reactions can look like aggression even when it's because she's scared) - she used to go mental whenever anyone knocked at the door.

She has always been very good with and for me - she listens to me far more than OH even though she spends more time with him. She is very interested in whatever we are doing so if either of us get up to go in the kitchen or upstairs she is up and following (doesn't actually go upstairs as not allowed) - for me if I tell her to sit and wait she will because she knows I will praise and make a fuss of her if she does. She is now starting to offer this without me telling her - I still make a fuss of her.

The door thing we had to tackle differently. She is in a cage overnight and it's her space and where she feels safe so if someone comes to the door we tell her to go in her bed first, shut the door and then tell her to be quiet. As soon as we are back in the house cage door is opened and she is given a reward - big fuss or a biscuit. Now as soon as someone comes to the door she goes to her bed without being asked.

Your parents need to make someone coming/going a positive thing and re-inforce the actions that are expected of the dog at that time - ie his job. If they can get him to understand that his job is to react in a certain way and he will be rewarded for that behaviour then it should work.

It does seem though (very sadly) that if they don't take action things could get worse and ultimately the dog will end up pts.
 
I was sure I'd misread your post because this behaviour would make more sense if it was your dog who'd gone to live with your parents due to the split. If as CC says there are no clinical indications; this sounds like a bc who's lost his human. Was the dog close to your ex?
This, coupled with frequent kennelling would be enough to unhinge this sensitive breed.
They are not a 'soft' breed though, I've known ob ch dogs who would not have survived had they not had a job and a committed owner.
They don't always do well in kennels. I fostered one like this. I had a bitch and a dog at the time, he worked out the dog wouldn't give him any problems and played with him. One night in the kitchen my bitch went for him quite badly. I turned and she looked unhappy but he looked quite sanguine. I turned away and watched him in the glass on the oven door, as soon as I did he stuck his nose under her chin and gave her the collie 'eye'. The minute I turned round, he stopped. I reassured my bitch, turned away, waited for him to do it again and without turning round gave him both barrels.
I don't know what a behaviourist would say but if I'd yelled at her he would have been 'controlling' both of us.
He needs plenty of one to one and it sounds as though he's chosen you. Hope it works out.
 
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