Biting suggestions for VERY strong horse.

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Grey_Showjumper

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bitting issues for hunting..
i thought i had cracked it, i was using a KK something or other, the one with a snaffle ring and then another ring below, he did go well in that but it seems he now enjoys buggering off with me
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bad ponyy...
so, what is something that is strong- he is very strong, but does stop at the other end... but nothing so strong it will cut his mouth up, although vaseline seems to be solving this..
so any suggestions, we have tried:
pelham,
cheltenham gag,
kimblewick,
bubble bit (or whatever it is called!) jointed dutch gag?

have been told i could add a strap to the above bit? or try an american gag?
Any other suggetions would be great.
He used to do the whole head on the ground and go, but now he does head tucked right in and avoid bit and go.. LOL.. the other issue is he is SO quick and accelerates so fast he runs out of room to stop, so its not like he wont stop its just hes going so fast he can't slow himself down in time...
Hes ridden with a drop nose band and a loose nose band (polo style) which stops him opening his mouth.. and seems to work well
Anyway, suggestions appreciated.
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a military bit? whats that?
As my instructor said "are you trying to stop the titanic with that gear" erm.. yes i think i am..
TOC, just tried looking up waterfords, all i can find are snaffles.. are they super strong or am i looking at the wrong things!?
 
Iv just been trying bits on a very strong pony and have settled with a waterford gag which has been doing the trick so far, i tried a cheltenham gag, pelham, dutch gag, but the waterford has been the best as he cant lean on it.
 
i used a cherry roller with a kineton noseband before - tis strong so be careful with your hands
look at where the horse is being strong - like - grabbing the bit? putting all of neck into tanking off? throwing head in air and doing it? Head between knees and running away like that?
 
I have a dutch (3 ring) gag with a waterford style mouthpiece. I find these bits work for horses that tend to pull their head down. If yours is tucking it in though the gag probably won't be effective.

Has the horse always had a bit? have you tried going bitless? Also maybe try changing the noseband from a drop to maybe a mexican/grakle.

What type of mouthpiece does he have at the moment? If just a jointed then maybe go for either a straight bar or a type of roller bit/waterford so he cannot grab hold of the bit itself. It's difficult to advise without seeing or knowing what the horse does to evade but there are soo many bits out there to try - maybe try a bit bank and 'experiment'! Myler do a fair few options for strong horses I believe.
 
we have tried a grackle, complete disaster! we have tried him with no noseband (just at home) and just put his head in the air and was gone lol...
at home i school him in a normal noseband and a neue schule (sp?) snaffle, which he goes nicely in.
for XC/team chasing i ride him in the first bit mentiong and a normal noseband, very easy to control...
we have tried straight bar, he currently has the one with 3 bits of metal (forgotten the name!) which worked for a while, but that was just schooling, and obviously the pelham had that and that was ok, but then i found the KK which he went much better in..
he sometimes does just put his head on the ground and go...not in a bombing way, just a sort of i like to gallop way.. but he generally tucks it in and sort of evades the bit by holding it in his teeth or crossing his jaw (strapping it down made this worse!)
the problem is, he runs on adrenaline as he LOVES it so so much and gets very excited. he also wants to race, and does a good job at doing so! he is safe though!
thanks for the suggestions, will try a few and see what we can come up with!
 
Mine will put his head down and try and p*ss off out hunting. If I use the tom thumb bit, he tries it and I only have to give him a little reminder of what he has in his mouth and he comes back to me. It's the only thing I have found that works on him. However, on my other horse, I still had no control in it and my next step is to try the Army Reversible.
 
I am really surprised that with all the replies you have received about your post, not one person has mentioned that your horse may be strong because he could be in pain. Horses that travel in the way you describe are normally trying to escape pain of some sort and it may not be pain originating from his original injury (whatever it is/was) but overcompensation from previous problems. You really need to go back to basics and try and establish if your horse is in pain anywhere in his body. Has his teeth been rasped lately by a qualified EDT? Are you certain his saddle still fits him? How do you know he hasn't slipped in the field and is running away from pain.

I know you said he went through a period of being good with the bit you tried, but this can be the same with any new bit to start with.

I really would suggest going back to the beginning with him and establish if your horse is running from pain rather than simply running.
 
thanks guys, the military looks very strong!? i might try it out first by borrowing from a tack shop...
i have tried a waterford.. he really didn't like it, that was when i first got him, and he is a lot better schooled now, so may try again.
oofadoofa, the tom thumb, is that quite strong? obviously stronger with a strap round the back...
thanks for suggestions
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[ QUOTE ]
I am really surprised that with all the replies you have received about your post, not one person has mentioned that your horse may be strong because he could be in pain. Horses that travel in the way you describe are normally trying to escape pain of some sort and it may not be pain originating from his original injury (whatever it is/was) but overcompensation from previous problems. You really need to go back to basics and try and establish if your horse is in pain anywhere in his body. Has his teeth been rasped lately by a qualified EDT? Are you certain his saddle still fits him? How do you know he hasn't slipped in the field and is running away from pain.

I know you said he went through a period of being good with the bit you tried, but this can be the same with any new bit to start with.

I really would suggest going back to the beginning with him and establish if your horse is running from pain rather than simply running.

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tack, back and teeth all done recently.. absolutley fine.
He likes to gallop, and as he gets fitter, he tucks his head in, think racing horse style.
he also accepts bits for a while and then gets bored/used to them and stops responding them..
the other thing someone suggested on another forum is a schooling issue, but i raelly can't think that its that. he is vry well schooled, XC/team chasing his repsonsive and an easy ride... i just think its adrenaline..
also don't think it can be pain, because hes only like this out hunting, never XC/team chasing/hunter trialing etc. etc...
 
My mare is like a tank, my YO said she has never ridden a horse as strong as my little mare. I invested in a myler combination bit and its been like a god send. I got the triple barrel mullen mouth medium shank combination with the raw hide noseband and she really seems settled in it. Shes still gets a little keen when doing fast work in a group but all I have to do is give her a little half halt and she comes back quite nicely. They are pricey though, I paid just under £100 for mine!!!
 
berry, i was also suggested a myler combination bit. im going to ask at the yard as to whether anyone has any of these bits before i fork out!!
we have spent a heck of a lot on him bit wise..but there we go!
and yes, my horsse resembles a tack, train or the titanic..lol.. hes not even big at 15.2hh! naughty boy. thankfully hes not dangerous and is sensible.
 
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I am really surprised that with all the replies you have received about your post, not one person has mentioned that your horse may be strong because he could be in pain. [ QUOTE ]


Yes, but unlikely if he ONLY does this out hunting. I ride my horse in a snaffle hacking normally and cantering round fields. Take him hunting and it's a whole different ball game, he once took off with me through a hedge and bushes and down over a bank. He certainly wasn't running away from pain and I wouldn't dare hunt him in anything milder now!
 
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and yes, my horsse resembles a tack, train or the titanic..lol.. hes not even big at 15.2hh! naughty boy. thankfully hes not dangerous and is sensible.

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My mare is only 15.1hh, she can get quite bouncy and when wound up kinda leaps and plunges but at least now I dont get her carting off with me when she decides to plung forwards and grabs the reins from my hands
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lol.
 
oofadoofa, thats exactly my thinking, he can't just suddenly be in pain when hunting!?
berry, will look into that bit and others.. mass bit trying session i think!
on another forum, someone suggested its a training issue? but i really can't see how that is? he responds to bits not on the hunting field, its just when adrenaline kicks in all his training goes to pot!
Thanks!
 
Hunting is the worst time to lose control as well, my coloured is a git when he is out because he pulls. Dont like the dutch or amaerican gag, they are so restricted, and they pull their head down, ideally you want something to pick it's head up if it is buggering off.
I have a cheltenham gag with a waterford mouthpiece, very hard to get hold of, cost me about £90 but the ONLY thing that has helped long term, I am really winning in that. I know you say you have tried a cheltenham to no success, which is what I said when someone suggested the combination but honestly they are two completely different bits.
I am a fan of the kineton noseband in a huge way but have never tried it with the aforementioned bit as I never needed it, I wear the cheltenham waterford gag with a grackle as it stops his head going sideways.
 
Have you tried a Cheltenham Gag with a double rein; a Sam Marsh Pelham or a Banbury Double?
I used to ride P2Ps and ex-'chasers in a Scurrier but never wore my normal "exercising" bit to go to a party.
I now use a Tom Thumb.
I can ride him (a chunky 15.2) all day off two little fingers with that - anything else and it is a fairground ride and I might as well put a Mars Bar in his mouth.
Someone else was on here (or Hunting) a while ago asking the same question re: her little cob - try looking at that post.
 
thanks, im going to try and find friends with these bits so i can test them out out hunting!
the problem is he is SO well behaved in every other situation, team chasing, group hacks, cubbing.. anything that is vaguely like hunting, he is great.. just hunting where he loves to go
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will try out as many bits suggested as possbile.
At least he is the most amazing jumper
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Thank you
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Am absolutely PMSL as I made a mental bet with myself as to how many replies you would get before someone said it was either a schooling issue or a potential pain issue. You actually did pretty well, I thought it would be on about the third reply
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the only thing that my very keen/strong mare respects is a cosquocero pelham. it makes a huge difference, no hauling required at all! i lent mine to someone on here and while it wasn't perfect for her boy, it made her check out other polo bits and she found one that works brilliantly on him. so, they're worth a look definitely.
 
I have a very strong horse out hunting and TC and in every other way his a snaffle mouth. What i do is i have to set myself time limit as i get to about 2.30pm and then i have to go home, normally if i pass this time i really do get brake failure. If there are more lines i could have to come home earlier, but hunting field is not the place to run out of brakes (i've been there no fun and I've got t-shirt shop on this one!!!) He does give me warning when brakes are failing and he's running on adrenline.

I would defo try with cheltenham gag with waterford but OUCH in pocket department, also rope cheek pieces for quicker action
 
i used to showjump an insanely strong dutch mare (16.2hh and built like a brick out house, pro men couldnt hold her!) in a W mouthpiece cheltenham gag. think this is a polo bit too......its got 2 normal snaffle mouthpieces with offset joints so when you take a pull it looks like a W-was the only thing i could hold her in (along with a running martingale, drop noseband and a standing on a cavesson!!!! she was so tanky, amazing jumper but like a tank!!!!!)
 
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. I invested in a myler combination bit and its been like a god send.

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I would reccomend a myler too as I tried all sorts of bits and nosebands and found that was about the only thing I could stop in. Once toto has gone you can't stop him untill he decides too which makes hacking out with others interesting! They are expensive but worth it. There are lots of tack shops/ bit banks that let you rent bits to try so we did this with a few and then bought a myler off ebay
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