Bitless advice please

[SEL]

I'm just sending back another hired bit and have decided that it is in the microcob's best interests to stay bitless. She has a badly floppy soft palate which surgery didn't resolve. I miss the finesse of having a bit, but ultimately her comfort is more important and maybe having to ride bitless will make me a better rider (looks for upside!)

I've got her in a sidepull borrowed from another livery - HUGE photo below.

The basics are there and she's now quite responsive to my seat, but I am finding it hard to keep her consistently up off her forehand. She's built downhill and is one of those 'probably been driven' types who likes to rush forward in trot pulling herself along on her front. Without the bit I'm having to engage my brain more to get her to use her back end, but now I need to go hunting for a permanent bitless solution I was wondering if anyone has any advice?

I think the nose pressure is a bit harsh in current set-up and she leans into it. I don't think I need anything which gives me more brakes (although head between knees thelwell bronc on a hack was interesting bitless), but I just want something that if I give that little 'head up please wiggle' gets a response.

 

[Nasicus]

Would an Orbitless be any use? It's pretty adjustable in terms of ways to change the pressure, direction etc:
https://www.orbitlessbridle.co.uk/configurations.html

Not sure if it would be any good for what you want, I'm still just getting to grips with one myself for my youngster when working on the ground (she's got wolf teeth top and bottom so bitless at least until they're out), but you can usually pick them up second hand on ebay easily enough.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Have you looked at a Transcend, as the double reins might help?

 

[Mudfukkle]

I'm just going down this route too, and my cob X is built in a similar way to yours.
I've just ordered from ebay basically, a rope halter with rings either side of the nose that you attach reins to. Haha, wish me luck. I think it's going to be trial and error.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Have you looked at a Transcend, as the double reins might help?

Beautifully made bridles.

Would lend you mine, OP, but it's a full size. I bought one but never used it, as when I finally tried my mare in a full cheeked fulmer snaffle after all the fancy lozenge snaffles she breathed a sigh of relief and I stuck with it!

 

[scats]

What size do you need? I have an orbitless you can try, but think it’s cob.

 

[Alibear]

Perhaps a western bosal? There are no moving parts on those and the nose piece is solid and roomy.

 

[paddy555]

I'm not sure that is a sidepull, it may be a scawbrig I think.
I use English hackamores.
I tried a scawbrig many years ago. There was no finesse,, it was a case of the rider pulls, the horse leans into it and pulls harder.

one thing you could try is to simply use a headcollar with a pair of reins attached and see what happens. It may give some idea as to what could work.

 

[Casey76]

Something like an orbitless/flower hack will give you different leverage options if poll pressure is OK.

An English hackamore works mainly off poll and nose pressure, and is best if you’re not direct reining.

A Transcend double will give you nose cues as well as an optional scrawbrig action as a ’curb’ rein.

Tartine goes in a Transcend side cue for the most part, but she isn’t strong or silly (usually) and doesn’t need anything extra.

 

[SEL]

What size do you need? I have an orbitless you can try, but think it’s cob.

She's got a tiny nose - bridle is a mix of cob and pony bits. I'll have a read up and if cob fits I'd love to try it.

I'm not sure that is a sidepull, it may be a scawbrig I think.
I use English hackamores.
I tried a scawbrig many years ago. There was no finesse,, it was a case of the rider pulls, the horse leans into it and pulls harder.

one thing you could try is to simply use a headcollar with a pair of reins attached and see what happens. It may give some idea as to what could work.

I think you're right. Does a sidepull act differently? She's ok in a headcollar but still downhill. I know it's a schooling issue but it's so much easier to get the response I need in a bit. But I need to get over that ? Its ages since I've ridden in a hackamore - I wonder if bitbank hire them

 

[SEL]

Something like an orbitless/flower hack will give you different leverage options if poll pressure is OK.

An English hackamore works mainly off poll and nose pressure, and is best if you’re not direct reining.

A Transcend double will give you nose cues as well as an optional scrawbrig action as a ’curb’ rein.

Tartine goes in a Transcend side cue for the most part, but she isn’t strong or silly (usually) and doesn’t need anything extra.

I've got a couple of friends who've not had great experiences with the Transcend - horses running straight through them. Titch is usually well behaved so I'm less worried by brakes but I want to avoid her leaning into it and falling on her forehand. Do you know if Larri uses it on anything "downhill"

 

[Casey76]

There is actually nothing to lean into with a side cue because there are no extraneous straps. It’s the least aversive type of bridle because there is the least interference (as long as you’ve nothing heinous like a tacked noseband…)

if a horse is running through the bridle, I’d argue that that is a training issue, not a bridle issue.

 

[gostelr]

This bitless crosses under the jaw for a different action. I've found the head up wiggle worked better on some horses with this design than a sidepull but then there are other horses that definitely prefer the sidepull.

https://nurturalhorse.com/about-nurturals/better/

 

[maya2008]

This bitless crosses under the jaw for a different action. I've found the head up wiggle worked better on some horses with this design than a sidepull but then there are other horses that definitely prefer the sidepull.

https://nurturalhorse.com/about-nurturals/better/

I schooled my old horse up to Elementary in the bridle from the link above - just used a bit for actual competitions. It gives a more precise signal than the majority of crossunder bridles, where the noseband is too wide and the signal too muffled. Mine is very old now and has broken - I asked on here and the closest thing I can find in the UK is the crossunder bridle from Performance Equestrian.

 

[Casey76]

This bitless crosses under the jaw for a different action. I've found the head up wiggle worked better on some horses with this design than a sidepull but then there are other horses that definitely prefer the sidepull.

https://nurturalhorse.com/about-nurturals/better/

Cross unders are extremely aversive, they can give the horse a sensation of being confined or claustrophobic because there is so much (linear) pressure when you pick up the rein.

they are also prone to chafing and rubs because there is a lot of friction (in comparison to direct rein attachment) when you pick up the rein.

 

[webble]

Love the orbitless. If you want to try a few options the matrix can be made into a side pull x under hackamore and scrawbrig

 

[TPO]

Perhaps a western bosal? There are no moving parts on those and the nose piece is solid and roomy.

Ditto this

You can watch videos of Joe Midgely and Warwick Schiller riding and training in a bodal and their horses definitely arent on the forehand

 

[SEL]

I schooled my old horse up to Elementary in the bridle from the link above - just used a bit for actual competitions. It gives a more precise signal than the majority of crossunder bridles, where the noseband is too wide and the signal too muffled. Mine is very old now and has broken - I asked on here and the closest thing I can find in the UK is the crossunder bridle from Performance Equestrian.

I'll have a look - thank you. That lack of a more precise signal is I think what I'm missing currently. I'm not worried about brakes or steering because she can do that off a headcollar but those little tweaks to get her to balance and straighten aren't really there right now.

Perhaps a western bosal? There are no moving parts on those and the nose piece is solid and roomy.

Will also look this up (my google history is going to be all bridles today). Especially given what TPO says above.

 

[GoldenWillow]

I think the set up you've got now, if not a scawbrig, will act like one and I've found there is a delay in their action and also you get a closing action rather than a direct aid. Hope I've explained that ok? I find a side pull actually work more like a bit in that you can close your fingers on the reins and get an instant reaction. There are the padded leather nose pieces, like the Transcend, and rope type ones like Hallo2012 recently posted a pic of.

 

[Leafcutter]

Have you tried the Micklem multi bridle? 3 different ways bitless, I use the simple side-pull, and you can lunge bitted or bitless as it has a ring on the noseband. I really rate mine, very useful piece of kit. I swop between bitted and bitless regularly, works great for us.

 

[Britestar]

I've been riding my old horse in his Micklem bitless, after he had dental surgery.
I've just attached the ridden reins to the noseband but.
Quiet impressed tonight. Went into his favourite 'cart mum off and freak her out' field, and he cantered really nicely (even though he was meant to be trotting, as chief babysitter).

 

[fredflop]

Light rider bridles are great, as are LG Zaum. However what suits one horse won’t suit another

 

[claret09]

definitely recommend trying an orbitless bridle. wendy who invented it is lovely and will always give advice about how to get the best out of using one. i have regularly used one with my 17.2 jumping horse and he goes very well in it