Bitless help

[FfionWinnie]

Its looking more like I will have to go bitless with new mare. All checks have been done and I have tried various bits but she is so unhappy in her mouth it makes me quite despondant.

I have tried one of these (anyone know what make it is and is it fitted correctly?). Ignore the purple parts that's the only cheek pieces I had small enough for it.

I didn't ride in it but she didn't seem to like it very much long lining in it. The best she has gone was when I long lined her with the reins attached to the side rings on a be nice halter (I padded the nose and headpiece up). What bitless bridle might have a similar action to the be nice halter, any ideas.

I'm going bankrupt buying and hiring bits and things to make her happy and nothing is!

Taking her to a recommended instructor tomorrow and open to try riding in a dually there.

Just feeling a bit down about it. I love the horse but this is a bigger problem than I anticipated.

Also if I have to go bitless, what aren't you allowed to do bitless. I want to join the RC and be able to do a small xc course, is that allowed? I know dressage is out?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

You can jump bitless, trec, endurance, but not showing or dressage. Well you could do unaffiliated dressage HC if you just wanted the comment sheet. Interdressage (online) let's you compete bitless.

How is a be nice halter different to a normal headcollar? Do they tighten under the jaw, crossing over, like a Dr Cook bridle? A sidepull is the closest to a normal headcollar, a dually is a little harsher than a normal sidepull I think. A scawbrig tightens under the chin and therefore round the nose. All are quite mild. There are stronger bitless types. I'm sure you'll find something to suit.

 

[quirky]

Do a bit of research on a Micklem. Very versatile and adaptable.
I highly recommend

 

[Piccy]

I have recently gone bitless with my boy due to a damaged tooth ( tooth damage before purchase ), we had tried several bits but he was very uncomfortable unhappy so took the plunge and purchased a micklem I went to the non comp version around a hundred pounds, i like the fact there a four ridden settings and the lunge option.
As I'm not made of money this was the best option I could find as I can try several ways in one product.
We have now ridden in the lowest setting and he seems so much happier more accepting I think the next setting up will be more suitable a will move to that next. I can attach a bit if needed so that's there but not sure will need it.

 

[Jericho]

I ride in a Micklem - middle setting. My mare is far more relaxed in this than bit. Give your mare time to get used to it, and do groundwork before trying ridden. Some just don't like the feeling of pressure but the Micklem is supposed to be ergonomically designed.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Thanks all for the help

The be nice does cross under the jaw but I don't think it would work in a cross over way, it isn't as far as I know designed for riding with, and I think it would mainly work on the nose.

Is the easy trek the same as the dr cook and are they very different in action to the Micklem, does anyone know?

She is teething and I am not sure she will appreciate something squeezing her jaw.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Found a good vid for the Micklem so I know how it works now.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Just bumping to see if anyone can say if that bitless bridle part is fitted correctly and what make/type it is.

 

[ridefast]

I don't know about the bitless but perhaps it isn't bits but the way you carry your hands? My horse hates it when I pull back but I didn't realise that was the issue until I started having classical riding lessons with a Phillippe Karl trained instructor, he told me to pull up not back, and as long as I always remember to have my hands in an up position, not back, then she's happy

 

[claribella]

Have you looked at the matrix? It changes into about six different versions of a bitless bridle so you can see which one she likes best and go from there. Heres the link bitlessand barefoot.com. There is also a facebook page which is really friendly and the lady who runs the site seems lovely. Im hoping to get a matrix with my christmas money!

 

[FfionWinnie]

No it is not the way I carry my hands!! She is like this on the lunge, long reins and was like this when I bought her. I have ridden all my life and am often complimented on my light hands and seat.

 

[FfionWinnie]

And also when she was broken she was like this and ridden by a professional rider.

 

[Fransurrey]

Looks like the bridle on there is a cross-under type. Hard to see! Commercial cross-unders are the Dr Cook and similar.

I use an English sidepull. This has a thick (as wide as a hunter cavesson) noseband, which is padded with leather. At the sides are reinforced brass rings for reins. I've used it on one exmoor for 9 years now (flippin eck, that's gone quick!!) and am using it to back my other exmoor, who like your horse, hated the bit.

This is it, here. Mine was made by Plas Equestrian. I had the reins converted to trigger clips, so I could use the bridle like a headcollar easily.

 

[Fransurrey]

Forgot to add that you can enter any event you like bitless, but you will be officially disqualified from dressage. A friend of mine got the ok from the show secretary to enter ODEs, but could not be placed due to 'incorrect tack' in the dressage phase. The judge in dressage actually took about 5 mins to notice her horse was bitless...

 

[TigerTail]

I think that is a scawbrigg - but am not entirely sure despite squinting at the pics

Longlining and lunging in a bitless bridle is not a great reflection of what theyre like ridden as unless you're an expert and the horse is very well schooled its very easy for the horse to just lean on them and they dont always release instantly.

A dually works like a side pull, just you have rope over the nose rather than leather. Ive ridden mine in a dually quite a bit and have no problem with it. Am about to try a hackamore though for more finesse.

The rules about competing dressage bitless are ridiculous to me as when you see what some people can achieve bitless surely that lightness with no gadgets is what dressage should be about grr

Good site here for info http://www.bitlessandbarefoot.com/bitless-bridles.php

 

[Brightbay]

That bridle looks like either a scawbrig or a LightRider (the LightRider is a version of the scawbrig). It has a noseband that sits lightly around the nose, and the reins attach to a strap that runs under the jaw. When you pull on the reins, the strap tightens under the jaw, so it exerts pressure around the nose only.

Bitless bridles tend to work on (a) the poll, (b) the nose or (c) a combination of a and b or (d) the sides of the face.

So Scawbrig, and LightRider act on the nose only, and by tightening. Dually works like this too - although it tightens over rather than under the nose. A Be Nice (I wouldn't ride in one of those!) tightens across the face and over the poll (hence the studs across the poll - ouch!).

Rope halters act on the side of the face. Dr. Cook, EasyTrek, IV Horse crossunders, all act by tightening around the face and over the poll, but don't affect the nose as much.

Hackamores act on the nose and as the leverage is applied, they also act on the poll - the longer the lever arm (length of shank) the more poll pressure there will be - so a German hackamore exerts a lot of leverage.

I use an Orbitless at the moment - it can be set up to have a small amount of poll pressure, but mainly acts on the side of the face - it's a sidepull. For exciting stuff, I use a Flower Hackamore - similar to the Orbitless but with short shanks, so a bit more poll pressure.

The Micklem has several settings - one is a side pull, acts on side of face. One is a crossunder, so like a version of the Dr. Cook. Not sure what the other bitless setting is, tbh.

If your horse has dental problems, you don't want anything tight on the sides of the face - so Dr. Cook, Orbitless, Micklem on the crossunder and LightRider types are out, since the noseband on all needs to be snug. A simple sidepull - esp using Micklem set up that gives more stability, doesn't need a tighter noseband so should be fine. The only option that doesn't squeeze the face at all is a rope halter, but specialist training for horse necessary to use that safely, IME.

Best thing to try is find a well fitted headcollar, and experiment with reins clipped to side rings, or reins crossed under jaw and out through opp side rings, or you can just about fake up a crossunder by using a long pair of reins, starting over poll, crossing under jaw, and then out through side rings. Trying these out will give you an idea how she responds to the different types.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Looks like the bridle on there is a cross-under type. Hard to see! Commercial cross-unders are the Dr Cook and similar.

I use an English sidepull. This has a thick (as wide as a hunter cavesson) noseband, which is padded with leather. At the sides are reinforced brass rings for reins. I've used it on one exmoor for 9 years now (flippin eck, that's gone quick!!) and am using it to back my other exmoor, who like your horse, hated the bit.

This is it, here. Mine was made by Plas Equestrian. I had the reins converted to trigger clips, so I could use the bridle like a headcollar easily.

Forgot to add that you can enter any event you like bitless, but you will be officially disqualified from dressage. A friend of mine got the ok from the show secretary to enter ODEs, but could not be placed due to 'incorrect tack' in the dressage phase. The judge in dressage actually took about 5 mins to notice her horse was bitless...

Thanks for that, a picture paints a thousand words indeed and now I know what a "side pull" is!

I think that is a scawbrigg - but am not entirely sure despite squinting at the pics

Longlining and lunging in a bitless bridle is not a great reflection of what theyre like ridden as unless you're an expert and the horse is very well schooled its very easy for the horse to just lean on them and they dont always release instantly.

A dually works like a side pull, just you have rope over the nose rather than leather. Ive ridden mine in a dually quite a bit and have no problem with it. Am about to try a hackamore though for more finesse.

The rules about competing dressage bitless are ridiculous to me as when you see what some people can achieve bitless surely that lightness with no gadgets is what dressage should be about grr

Good site here for info http://www.bitlessandbarefoot.com/bitless-bridles.php

Thanks tigertail. I meant from the point of view of her fussing and chucking her head around however I am going to try riding in that tomorrow to rule it out (or not!). Thanks for the link as well I will have a look at that in a bit.

That bridle looks like either a scawbrig or a LightRider (the LightRider is a version of the scawbrig). It has a noseband that sits lightly around the nose, and the reins attach to a strap that runs under the jaw. When you pull on the reins, the strap tightens under the jaw, so it exerts pressure around the nose only.

Bitless bridles tend to work on (a) the poll, (b) the nose or (c) a combination of a and b or (d) the sides of the face.

So Scawbrig, and LightRider act on the nose only, and by tightening. Dually works like this too - although it tightens over rather than under the nose. A Be Nice (I wouldn't ride in one of those!) tightens across the face and over the poll (hence the studs across the poll - ouch!).

Rope halters act on the side of the face. Dr. Cook, EasyTrek, IV Horse crossunders, all act by tightening around the face and over the poll, but don't affect the nose as much.

Hackamores act on the nose and as the leverage is applied, they also act on the poll - the longer the lever arm (length of shank) the more poll pressure there will be - so a German hackamore exerts a lot of leverage.

I use an Orbitless at the moment - it can be set up to have a small amount of poll pressure, but mainly acts on the side of the face - it's a sidepull. For exciting stuff, I use a Flower Hackamore - similar to the Orbitless but with short shanks, so a bit more poll pressure.

The Micklem has several settings - one is a side pull, acts on side of face. One is a crossunder, so like a version of the Dr. Cook. Not sure what the other bitless setting is, tbh.

If your horse has dental problems, you don't want anything tight on the sides of the face - so Dr. Cook, Orbitless, Micklem on the crossunder and LightRider types are out, since the noseband on all needs to be snug. A simple sidepull - esp using Micklem set up that gives more stability, doesn't need a tighter noseband so should be fine. The only option that doesn't squeeze the face at all is a rope halter, but specialist training for horse necessary to use that safely, IME.

Best thing to try is find a well fitted headcollar, and experiment with reins clipped to side rings, or reins crossed under jaw and out through opp side rings, or you can just about fake up a crossunder by using a long pair of reins, starting over poll, crossing under jaw, and then out through side rings. Trying these out will give you an idea how she responds to the different types.

Thanks Brightbay. I just want to point out that the be nice was padded out and the poll studs turned the other way. I did it to try her out and she didn't mind it which is nothing short of a miracle so I don't think it could possibly be hurting her in anyway but it's not suitable as it moves around too much anyway.

Just got back from a lesson with Joanna Heaton where I tried a dually and a Micklem set up as a cross over. She also watched me long line her with a bit and on both the dually and the Micklem.

I'm going to do a little report about that on a new thread but the upshot was I had decided to buy a Micklem bridle.

I wouldn't have said there was much of a difference between riding her in the dually and the Micklem. She was much better than with a bit, she did poke her nose and toss her head some of the time during downward transitions but I reckoned that was habit rather than particularly objecting to the pressure. Now I am thinking maybe I should try an English hackamore before buying a Micklem. Thoughts?

I would have been happy to hack her out in the Micklem on the crossover setting, and happy to persevere with that to see is she settles, I wasn't happy to keep going with a bit at this stage.

Will report back when I have tried the thing I have already tomorrow.

Thanks again all, I am really grateful to everyone who has tried to help!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Just a little update. Went hacking today in the presumed scawbrigg. She was on the strong side and I got off at one point to lower and tighten it as she was starting to feel a bit scary (!). I think it has a fairly mild action and just tightens on the nose. Definitely more successful than any bit but I didn't feel I had enough control over her and i also found it irritating that the chin strap would stay squint after turning, so I found the only shop in Scotland with a black English Hackamore and bought that on the way home from work. I am pretty hopeful it should be ideal for her.

Little comparison vid from bit to bitless, she was fairly striding out today as well.

[YOUTUBE]H_SCqbyubhQ[/YOUTUBE]