Bitless

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Spacejet

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Hello Everyone,

I am going to start off by saying I don't want people questioning my decision regarding bitless.
I would like some guidance, not criticism.

I have a four year old mare, who I've started off bitless.
In the school shes fine, has good brakes, turns etc. But on a hack she can be quite boisterous (jogs ALOT, just likes to GO and doesn't like slowing down!).

I've been doing groundwork with her (backup from rein pressure, head down from poll pressure, 'tuck in' nose from nose pressure and flexing), I am just wondering what else I can do to help her understand pressure means SLOW.

I understand shes still very green and gets excited at the prospect of upping the gears, but I don't want this to become a habit.

Thanks.
 
Are you taking her out alone or in company? In company bitless, mine can run straight through as she loves to do a bit of racing. Alone, she will listen. more going out with sensible companions or alone should give her the idea of what you want.
 
Haven't a clue to your question but good luck.

I don't understand why people would question your decision, its up to you what you do with your own horse. I ride my boy in his dually sometimes and he goes lovely in it. I think he would do some lovely schooling in a bitless bridle for this very reason.

Would you consider riding her in a dually? This works on nose pressure and I have found it effective for loading, lunging, riding and jumping.
 
9TAILS - I am not taking her out alone yet as she is still only a baby! I reckon she would listen alot more alone though - but I agree with the racing thing, she LOVES to race.. She always has to be in front as well heh. I am hoping to walk her short distances alone soon but she has been out of work for a few weeks due to mud fever .. Which doesn't help her excitability!

APPLECART14 - I've tried her in a dually before and she still runs through it!
It's like once shes going she fazes everything else out and concentrates on GO. Luckily she's learning the ends of the hacks so doesn't continue past the end but I'd like to be able to slow her down just in case! Heaven forbid we come across another horse lol!
I've asked before and some people get very 'oh just ride her in a bit she'll be much better', and can sometimes get quite aggressive regarding it.. It's a shame because I've never slatted bits but some people take it offensively. :(
 
Have you taught her any verbal directions? I think the running through and excitement can happen in a bit too, so I don't think it is the bit v bitless so much as maybe not transferring her knowledge to a different situation? If you can teach her to respond to verbal on the ground then that transfers much more easily than physical.
My guys have been taught verbal direction since they were babies as they are destined to drive, but it has come in immensely useful - they knew the simple commands inhand, so when I moved to longreining they still responded and I could just gently add in the rein aids, and same when riding - I sat on a few times to get them used to that and then quietly asked for walk on, instant response without the need for physical aids, and that was the same for stopping, turning and backing up.
It would mean a fair bit of work before you can apply it out on a hack, and it is a slightly different scenario because mine have been out on hacks since they were babies, on their own and in company, so are already used to the going out and about bit and therefore less excited. But they always respond to voice even when distracted by other things.
 
Spacejet said:
9TAILS - I am not taking her out alone yet as she is still only a baby!
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I think babies should see a bit of the world without a nanny all the time. Inhand, long reining, ridden. The sooner the better otherwise they expect to have their hoof held all the time.
 
Spacejet said:
I've asked before and some people get very 'oh just ride her in a bit she'll be much better', and can sometimes get quite aggressive regarding it.. It's a shame because I've never slatted bits but some people take it offensively. :(
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Wow I wish people would get out of the mindset of what suits one horse doesn't necessarily suit another. Every horse is an individual as is every person. Try telling people all they are allowed to drive is a Skoda or a mini and i think you would get some annoyed business men!
 
9TAILS - very true, I sometimes over protect her and she needs to work things out for herself. She was nervous about being alone in the school and is fine now, so I think it is time to start walking down the track alone! I've made the mistake before of not hacking alone and she was a napping nightmare on her own :/

WENCH - she's currently in an orbitless type of noseband with a loose chin chain. I am currently getting a sidepull made for her aswell as she doesn't need the orbitless in the school.

APPLECART14 - I know!! It's ridiculous how some people react as if the world is split 'Bit vs Bitless'.
Haha yes exactly! I know many many people who would kick off about it, and some who would accept it - exactly the same concept :)
 
I've had a fellow livery recoil in horror and expect me to go tanking off down the road/across the fields. "But how will you stop? I couldn't possibly take a horse out if I had no control". Neither happened, horse trundled off ears pricked with precise steering and we returned a couple of hours later unscathed. Numerous times.
 
My youngster was very joggy when he first arrived and always had to be in front. It wasn't a racing thing he was worried. He is much better now. Could you try taking her out alone with someone with you on foot? Do you have a sensible horse that could go with you that wouldn't mind if you spent the whole hack doing transitions to keep her listening?
 
I believe she will get better with time, it probably is a nervous/excited thing.
I will ask someone to go out on foot with me, and I was thinking transitions/leg yielding/circles just doing something to get her brain ticking on something else. I'm sure the girls I hack with won't mind! Thanks Webble :)
 
Could be worth trying a different type of Bitless see if that makes any difference, just as you may try a different bit
 
I've just started researching bitless - following KS surgery, we're now barefoot, so I'm kinda following the trail... It seems that there are lots of different bridles - hackamore, bosal, sidepull, crossunder, scrawbrig, Dr Cook etc & they all work in different ways, so it might be worth trying a different one? Somewhere (forget where) sells a bridle that converts to all the main types, so you can switch it around & see what works. I'm probs not the best authority as so far I've dug out an old hackamore & contemplated cleaning it...

T x
 
Good luck it's a mindset issue. Bits make little difference if a horse decides to go! I ride in a side pull bitless and also use a neck rein to reinforce the 'slow down' aid. A little pull and release. If I needed more I would probably go hackamore as you can mainly ride with your bodyweight and seat but have a back up of some poll pressure if you feel you really need it.
 
catembi said:
I've just started researching bitless - following KS surgery, we're now barefoot, so I'm kinda following the trail... It seems that there are lots of different bridles - hackamore, bosal, sidepull, crossunder, scrawbrig, Dr Cook etc & they all work in different ways, so it might be worth trying a different one? Somewhere (forget where) sells a bridle that converts to all the main types, so you can switch it around & see what works. I'm probs not the best authority as so far I've dug out an old hackamore & contemplated cleaning it...

T x
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If your looking at different sorts I'd highly recommend the Lightrider Bitless bridle. I've got one (well I bought just the noseband) and it's a brilliant bit of kit for my horse!
 
After this conversation and after being inspired yet again by seeing my Richard Maxwell book that I lent to my friend last night where he rides in just a neckstrap (my friends ambition) I rode my horse in his dually again last night, something I don't do enough of. He was lovely, did some medium trot, and felt much more relaxed, stretching in walk almost to below his knee, trot work stretching down lovely. A little bit speedy in right canter but he finds right canter more taxing anyway so I don't tend to do too much of it anyway, its always the one corner, normally where the sheep hide under the trees and scare him!

Did some lateral work and a couple of flying changes on both reins, lovely. I was really pleased and it made a refreshing change from riding in his pelham or snaffle. Bitless can sometimes be best.

WHY don't we all have a go, just once and see how we get on? For those that have duallys you should set yourself a challenge in a small enclosed space and see how you go. I think you will be suprised. I would like to try a little clear round course at the local riding club, maybe one day I will hire the jump course arena and see how we get on just for fun. For those that have an old hackamore shoved in a draw in the tack room, dig it out and be adventurous!
 
but just "jumping" on a horse that is not used to bitless, nor has been trained to know what the rein aids are/the action of the bridle does, is not a very sensible thing to do...
 
OP if you are teaching Groundwork have you taught to disengage to a stop? That's a basic lesson all mine learn, first on the ground and then with a rider. There's been times I've been dizzy from "bending to a stop" , but it's a great tool to have, a horse can't rear or buck or run away whilst disengaging and eventually a stop aid becomes as simple as lifting the reins up. If your horse is laterally flexing from the halter already then you are halfway there.
 
wench said:
but just "jumping" on a horse that is not used to bitless, nor has been trained to know what the rein aids are/the action of the bridle does, is not a very sensible thing to do...
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Yes and no. Mine hadn't had any training in bitless before I rode him in it....he had the concept of pressure and release and did a necessary amount of groundwork with him, but didn't do anything other than that. Bitless was a necessity due to a jaw issue - he got the gig straight away. Within a couple of weeks I galloped him in a Dually across the Epsom Downs :D I had no less control than in a bit - if anything he was lighter in the hand because he couldn't lean.
 
wench said:
but just "jumping" on a horse that is not used to bitless, nor has been trained to know what the rein aids are/the action of the bridle does, is not a very sensible thing to do...
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You have to start somewhere and take the plunge. How else do you find out if your horse is better with or without a bit then? The same when you sit on a unbacked horse for the first time, there are lots of 'what if's'. But you can't live your life with 'what ifs' instead you have to try.

You could say the same about getting in a car for the first time learning to drive because you could crash, or the first swimming lesson you ever have when you could drown!

Sometimes we have to take the plunge. If you are sensible and take sensible precautions such as riding bitless for the first time in the company of someone or when the weather isn't blowing a gale.

Maybe I am just a bit of an adventurous person, or maybe its because my horse is quite reliable and steady.

I wouldn't ride bitless in an open field for the first time that's for sure!
 
wench said:
but just "jumping" on a horse that is not used to bitless, nor has been trained to know what the rein aids are/the action of the bridle does, is not a very sensible thing to do...
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Not sure how this makes any sense? Plenty of horses (mine included) are started under saddle in a rope halter, long before they are ever bitted. Horses don't need bits, it's a rider thing.
 
Returning to the original question...
OP learning that pressure means "slow down" actually means learning that "slowing down means release of pressure". You must allow the loose rein once she does slow down. She has to be allowed to make the mistake of rushing in order to learn that it is wrong.
The basic principle I use is no different whether bitless or bitted. Loose rein walk. She can walk as fast as she likes as long as she does not jog (that's hard for some people to learn to allow as well). If she breaks pace, stop her hard and back her up three steps. Halt. Throw the rein back at her and walk on: MUST be a loose rein again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Hundreds of times if necessary (I have vivid memories of taking 45 minutes to get up a three hundred yard long driveway with my young bloke on about his third ride out).
If you need "more brakes" while learning this I would look at a hackamore (mechanical or daisy). Same as a curb versus a snaffle, the cheek pieces on the snaffle give you a bit more "severity" to get her to listen up.
 
What's her "whoa" like on the ground? I would go back to ground work, and get a good solid whoa installed with a verbal cue, and one which can be used easily under saddle. I used a whistle for a long time, as a "calm down" cue, then realised I couldn't whistle when I was in a stress, so we've transitioned to an "uh-ohhhh" which has much more of an effect than my hand on the rein with my youngster.

As an aside, my mare, who has ben ridden with a simple snaffle for at least the past 2 years (she is 8), had her first horseball lesson last night with a Dr Cook, and there were no issues with brakes or steering, in a rather "challenging" atmosphere. A Dr Cook is far from my favoutire type of BB, but it is the only one I have, is at least 8 years old, and I think it is still good for those occasions when I really don't want to use a bit.
 
NZJenny said:
Not sure how this makes any sense? Plenty of horses (mine included) are started under saddle in a rope halter, long before they are ever bitted. Horses don't need bits, it's a rider thing.
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Agree. Its just what we have all been told we must do, its the norm and anything that deviates away from the norm is always viewed with suspicion.
 
Obviously completely mental over here. I just took the whole bridle straight off!!!! Schooling one day and thought to myself "I wonder what would happen if..." leant forward and popped it off!!!

Turns out not much happened!
 
CrazyMare said:
Obviously completely mental over here. I just took the whole bridle straight off!!!! Schooling one day and thought to myself "I wonder what would happen if..." leant forward and popped it off!!!

Turns out not much happened!
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You sound like me, I am always wondering what could happen and when you find out its not half as bad as you think! :)
 
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