Bits; NS vs German silver

[PapaFrita]

Okeedokee, have been looking into a new bit for PF. Well, not actually a NEW new bit; I used to ride her in a tom thumb w/lozenge like this;

...but I sold it. Yeh. I can't explain it either as she went v nicely in it. Perhaps I planned to buy another when I was in the UK...
ANYhow, I've got a bit of a bit thing going and in my constant quest for something 'better' or just even more to PF's liking, I've been looking at the NS elevator like this;

Now, my question is, how does it compare (if at all) to, for instance, the german silver version. I know about the angled lozenge, ergonomic design, I mean in feel. AND, is the very significant price difference justified?

If anyone has any of the bits described, reviews/critiques would be most welcome
Thanks

 

[ttt]

We used the Tom Thumb on two of the ponies and were fab bits but both ponies were fast fizzy, forward going. We then went onto horses and used a normal snaffle on the two new young horses. I heard a lot of good things about the NS bits and bought two for the horses (snaffle versions) and they are absolutely worth it and I would not go back to 'normal' snaffles. I know this is not exactly what you were asking but hope it gives you an idea?

 

[kirstyhen]

The Tom thumb has a head lowering action whereas the elevator has a lifting action I think, that would be the biggest difference!

 

[Firewell]

I've never tried those two bits BUT my horse does have an NS bit. He absolutely loves it, it is beautifully made and it's as light as a feather and warm to the touch.
Ive brought sprengers in the past and have not been impressed, it was very heavy, every horse hated it.
My horse opens his mouth for the NS bit and he's not a fussy horse, he was fine in his old stainless steel version but the NS, I should imagine it's like wearing silk after wearing nylon .

 

[PapaFrita]

We used the Tom Thumb on two of the ponies and were fab bits but both ponies were fast fizzy, forward going. We then went onto horses and used a normal snaffle on the two new young horses. I heard a lot of good things about the NS bits and bought two for the horses (snaffle versions) and they are absolutely worth it and I would not go back to 'normal' snaffles. I know this is not exactly what you were asking but hope it gives you an idea?

Well PF is fast, fizzy and forward-going as well It's good to know that the NS compare well to regular snaffles. I'm willing to make the investment if enough people think they're worth it. So far I've not heard anything against them

 

[PapaFrita]

The Tom thumb has a head lowering action whereas the elevator has a lifting action I think, that would be the biggest difference!

I don't see how the design is virtually identical, apart from the angled lozenge and a slightly different curvature to the mouthpiece. Doesn't a bit have to have a curb chain for it to have a lowering action? Like doubles/pelhams, etc?

 

[PapaFrita]

I've never tried those two bits BUT my horse does have an NS bit. He absolutely loves it, it is beautifully made and it's as light as a feather and warm to the touch.
Ive brought sprengers in the past and have not been impressed, it was very heavy, every horse hated it.
My horse opens his mouth for the NS bit and he's not a fussy horse, he was fine in his old stainless steel version but the NS, I should imagine it's like wearing silk after wearing nylon .

Thanks, that's very helpful Everyone seems to adore them, which is good news

 

[kirstyhen]

No idea, but I've always been told the Tom thumb lowers the head, similar to how a Dutch gag (which doesn't actually work like a true gag) works.
I tried one on Mally who fights by putting her head down and it just made her worse.

 

[becca1305]

I too was told they were for raising the head if anything (and helping them to sit on their hocks). Indeed my instructor has recommended I try a waterford dutch gag in monster for hunting after the brakes failure with the tom thumb (lozenge), american gag (lozenge), and cheltenham gag. She yanks her head down to the floor she was recommending bits to help raise her head. *confused face*

Mine also goes nicely in a tom thumb with lozenge for show jumping and for some reason I ended up in an american gag (lozenge) for xc I don't know why as she goes nicely SJ in tom thumb and isn't strong XC (although the american gag is cracking for setting them up to skinnies etc) but next season I plan on also trying the xc in the tom thumb or a new bit.

Weirdly enough I was eyeing up the NS elevator a few days ago as whilst she goes nicely in a tom thumb Im always looking to find something even better and also was wondering if they were worth the money though I haven't seen the german silver alternative?

 

[PapaFrita]

No idea, but I've always been told the Tom thumb lowers the head, similar to how a Dutch gag (which doesn't actually work like a true gag) works.
I tried one on Mally who fights by putting her head down and it just made her worse.

Hmm... the Cotswoldsport website, which is where I bought my Tom Thumb says; "The TT is unusual in providing poll action with the ability to lift the head.
Ideal for show jumping where you need to get your horses hocks underneath them to jump."

Doesn't make sense that the Tom Thumb and Dutch gag should have such totally different effects to the jumper/elevator if the leverage is basically the same.

 

[PapaFrita]

Weirdly enough I was eyeing up the NS elevator a few days ago as whilst she goes nicely in a tom thumb Im always looking to find something even better and also was wondering if they were worth the money though I haven't seen the german silver alternative?

German silver one here;

http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65_69

And also some variations on the lozenged Tom Thumb

 

[kirstyhen]

Ah well, I've got no idea then

 

[PapaFrita]

Ah well, I've got no idea then

LOL. Shame I can't borrow one to try out before I spend £75

 

[becca1305]

thanks
this slightly different but it may be of use? http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=67
they say they will post to other countries for the trial and buy
Its actually very similar to the german silver one you kindly linked perhaps its a new style?

 

[kirstyhen]

You can hire the NS bits from horse bit hire/shop (I can never remember what the one I use is called!)

 

[kirstyhen]

Can't edit! It's horse bit hire that I use, they've always been really good, although I've always bought them! Just never the elevator!

 

[becca1305]

i think we cross posted great minds think alike that said Ive just ordered a dutch waterford gag on trial from them a couple of days ago and haven't received a blinking confirmation email, I know its near xmas but surely it should be automatic acknowledging my payment?!

 

[kirstyhen]

I don't use the horse bit shop as I've heard of a few issues with them, horse bit hire have always been fab though.

 

[PapaFrita]

You can hire the NS bits from horse bit hire/shop (I can never remember what the one I use is called!)

I'm in Argentina. By the time it gets here I'll have to send it straight back!

 

[kirstyhen]

Oh yeah, duh

 

[meardsall_millie]

PF - what size do you need? I have one sitting doing not very much in the tack room at the moment. I don't want to sell it but you're welcome to borrow it to try it if you want?

 

[PapaFrita]

PF - what size do you need? I have one sitting doing not very much in the tack room at the moment. I don't want to sell it but you're welcome to borrow it to try it if you want?

5". You like it then, if you don't want to get rid?

 

[meardsall_millie]

5". You like it then, if you don't want to get rid?

Oh, think this will be rather too big, it's a 5.75" - although the offer is still there if you want it.

I've only used it once as the horse decided he needed numerous trips to the vet shortly afterwards so I'm keeping it ready for when he's back out and about again.

 

[PapaFrita]

Oh, think this will be rather too big, it's a 5.75" - although the offer is still there if you want it.

I've only used it once as the horse decided he needed numerous trips to the vet shortly afterwards so I'm keeping it ready for when he's back out and about again.

Ah yes, rather too big; PF has a tiny head and correspondingly dinky mouth.
How typical of horses to wait until you've bought an expensive item of tack to damage themselves.
I think I'm going to go ahead and give it to myself for Christmas Have to persuade sellers to post internationally

 

[NinjaPony]

The bit bank do a 30 day trial on that bit, so you could try it, then send it back if it doesn't suit
http://www.horsebitbank.com/elevator-71.phtml

 

[PapaFrita]

The bit bank do a 30 day trial on that bit, so you could try it, then send it back if it doesn't suit
http://www.horsebitbank.com/elevator-71.phtml

Yes, but I'm in Argentina. Takes almost that long for something to get here from the UK....

 

[flyingfeet]

The difference between an elevator and tom thumb is there is less 'play' on the mouthpeice of the evelator, making is kind of like eggbutt v loose ring.

GS v NS, I'd eat my hat if you notice a difference in alloys on the same design.

PF if you are ordering the CS one, pm or facebook me for a discount

 

[PapaFrita]

The difference between an elevator and tom thumb is there is less 'play' on the mouthpeice of the evelator, making is kind of like eggbutt v loose ring.

GS v NS, I'd eat my hat if you notice a difference in alloys on the same design.

PF if you are ordering the CS one, pm or facebook me for a discount

Oh now THAT's interesting. Do you think the NS and GS have the same amount of play?
GS is rather a lot cheaper, isn't it? I really shouldn't dwell on your website... I'll be shopping all day

 

[flyingfeet]

The bits you are comparing are pretty much identical

 

[PapaFrita]

The bits you are comparing are pretty much identical

I suspected as much.