Bits Pelhams/gags?? (any instructors or schooling buffs out there?)

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Baileyhoss

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Hello there.

Sorry this might be a long one, I'm looking for some advice re' bitting issues. I have a little 14.3hh tbxhighland. Had him since he was 4. (now 13yo) He's a lovely little horse, well capable of going beautifully, but more usually gawps about, goes hollow and takes the pi55.

We have practically given up on dressage as he can go wonderfully and get 67% in a novice test, or go abmissaly and gett 55% in a prelim the next time. Is so frustrating and inconstent.

he has his teeth and back checked regularly, been ridden in various snaffles all his life, currently in a NS hanging cheek baucher with a lozenge. he is fit and healthy and well capable of working well when the mood takes him, if in the market harourough for example, he'll knuckle down and work great because he knows there's no option, so i really do think he is just taking the pi55 of me.


My instructor has advised that i need to take a firmer stronger line with him and physically stop him buggering about, but I feel now I am taking a stronger contact than I would like, i have lost the softness and although it works for a while, he starts to get tense and resists (and my arms ache)

someone at the yard suggested trying him in a pelham or gag, the reason being that although he doesn't need the brakes (although he does get strong jumping), he basically ignores me and a stronger bit would enable me to ride lighter and softer and let the bit amplify my signals and give him a stronger message to get on with it.

This would be a means to an end, to hopefully achieve a more correct consistent way of going, then reverting back to a snaffle.

What do you think ???- I would use such a bit with 2 reins, but I haven't really ridden in anything other than a snaffle. Would this be a very severe route to go down? i thought that although its a strong bit, it would enable me to have light hands, i really don't like taking the hold that I am having to take just now to assert myself.

Can anyone please tell me what is the difference between a dutch gag action and a pelham action? would a straight or jointed mouthpiece be softer? if straight, would a port be softer? the one type of snaffle i have never tried is a mullen type mouthpiece. i think he has a fairly fleshy mouth as his tongue squeezes out between his teeth.

Sorry for the novel. Hope someone can help. I'll be greatful for any opinions or experiences.

Fi x
 
Ooo an interesting one. 1st dutch gag has no curb pressure. Personally I don't like them as 9 time out of 10 they're used as a fashion bit although they now seems to be going out., As for whats softer straight or jointed it really depends on mouth confermation. Large fleshy tounges can get pinched in single joints and can also cause the joint to hit the roof of the mouth. Double joints can avoid this. Striaght bars work primarilly off the tounge rather than the bars of the mouth so it depends what you horse responds to better. A mullen or port can move the pressure back to the bars more but it depend on how high the roof of the mouth is because you don't want it hitting (try poking the roof of your mouth it hurts!)
My suggestion would be two reins with either pelham/double/ dutch gag (how thier meant to be used anyway) and ride with a loose curb rein and just use it as and when you need it so your horse knows if he messes you have him, if he works nicely he's treated nicely therefore keeping the ideal of a soft contact. Other than that send off to bit bank and keep trying different things. its hard doing this over the net but at least its an idea. A saddlery near me has a arena for its saddle fitting service and they also let you try bits there so maybe you could do that or raid someone elses tack room! Hope that helps! or at least lets you eliminate some things!
 
we are very hard done to on the saddlery front up here. yours sounds great.
I forgot to say, I would either remove the curb chain or keep if very loose if using a pelham, so I suppose doing that would make it much the same as a gag, working primarily on poll action?

That makes sense about the joint/s action with a fleshy mouth, A straight bar is one of the few snaffles, i haven't tried, so I'll maybe give that a shot as well as I'll obviously need something dressage legal at some stage.


so confusing. i'm had a look on shop 4 bits and the NS universal gag lozenge has a similar mouthpiece to what he has so that might be ok, can't seem to find any straight bar gags, so will look at pelhams, a plain mullen one, or there's a myler mullen barrel pehlam which might be what I am after, they also do a hanging cheek snaffle version, for later on. thanks for your help. I think I'll be keeping shop 4 bits in business!!

Fi x
 
FWIW we solved our problems by going to a straight happy mouth mouthpiece, giving him the idea of what was wanted using a pelham with two reins and curb chain and then once he had got the idea firstly getting rid of the chain and then swapping to the same mouthpiece in a hanging cheek snaffle.

We now have dressage legal or mega control and brakes and are very happy with the result.
 
thanks jemima. that's exactly my plan, to change his way of thinking with the pelham, then back into the hanging cheek, but maybe a different mouthpiece. Only prob is that he can be a bit of a chewer and happy mouths don't last v long, the myler mullen barrel looks nice, i would like to see the difference between that and a straight bar up close. This is going to be an expensive experiment!!.

Fi x
 
Hi Fi,

Without offending you at all, is it worth spending the money you would use to buy a potentially expensive bit on lessons. I only suggest this as you say he can do a very nice test, but only when he wants to. With a couple of good lessons (in a short space of time) might just help you through the problem, esp if you want to stay dressage legal. If you are prepared to ride with 2 reins then I would suggest a straight bar pelham and save it for jumping if that is when he is at his strongest. Do the curb up so it engages as soon as you use the bottom rein then you will find out only have to use it a couple of times. Try any new bit in your lesson as I know I always ride better in a lesson when someone is squarking at me.

Good luck.....
 
Although a pelham costs £20 and a lesson is normally more!

Taking a strong contact is no good for horse or rider, it will just make the horses mouth numb. The ideal is to get the lightest possible contact for subtle communication.

I have to admit to occasionally popping on draw reins (yes the work of the devil no less!!) however I only use them around 10 times a year just to help teach the horse and I don't ride with them long.

With my horse that gets leany, I pop him in his tom thumb jumping bit and that seems to soften him up for dressage (if I used a pelham I wouldn't get his head off his chest!).
 
for the record, I take regular lessons and a lot of the riders at our yard are very experienced competition riders, so there is a lot of good help around.

It is my instrutor that has said it's about time i put my foot down and get tough, I just wanted to consider options of how to do so. The way I see it, I can take a hold, which I don't like to do (and sometimes I dont win) or retain an even light contact and position by using a bit that gives a little more 'persuasion'


Cheers tho

F x
 
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