Bitten off more than I can chew

kerrieberry2

kerrieberry2

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Sorry another post about rearing horses!

but I just don't know what to do!

my 2yr has become evil in the past couple of days! My friend moved her horse away just over a week ago, so its left me with just my 2yr gelding and my 27yr old mare!

So on Monday I had the farrier and stupidly tried to lead them both in together (hasnt been a problem before) but the 2yr old start rearing up vertical, so I had to let my mare go so he didnt hurt her and sorted him out! then he was trying to rear up whilst having his front feet trimmed, wasn't too bad with the backs! so my farrier gave him a good telling off, and then he calmed down a bit!

I then took him to the field closest to the yard so he could see my mare while she was being shod, I went to remove his halter and he just kept rearing up! eventually I said NOOOO in a deep voice and managed to slip it off and he was fine.

Then today, I got him in, fed him, picked his feet out, brushed him and put him back out, and he was a sweet as anything. then dropped down on the floor and had a roll, right in the gate way, as he got up he bucked and kicked out in my direction, then went off to eat!

so I went out to poo pick, at this point he was in the field shelter and he saw the wheel barrow and come cantering out, he seems to have taken a shine to the barrow and also biting the poo a scoop handles! but today he would leave it alone, was being really agressive towards me when I tried to push it.

I tried to stand confidently and look at him in the eye to keep him away from me, but he took no notice! then he left me alone for a second and I walked off. He then came over to me and was trying to bite the handle of the fork, as i walked off he was trying to nip at me, so I pushed his face away, so he then started rearing up at me. I tried telling him no and tried to get him to back up but every time I did or said anything he'd just rear up at me, in the end he came down and landed in the wheel barrow and ran off!

Needless to say, this has scared the total c*ap out of me and I don't know what to do next!

I know that I need another horse on the yard so I can start working him without the other getting stressed being on her own but I can't afford to get anything else!

What can I do??

I don't want to end up selling him. I've had difficult horses in the past and have worked through the issues but never had a horse that seems intent on hurting me!
 
He sounds just like my New Forest mare was at 2 yrs old, Kerrieberry! Just stay firm and calm when handling, as I'm sure you are by what you're saying. He's just being a baby and testing you to see if you really mean it.

Also having other horses to be with would help a lot in the field. My OH's big cob used to get rather too playful when we went out muck clearing. Those were the days when he was separated from my horse (long story) and if he was short of grass, or it was raining (he hates the rain!), he would ask us to play. Trouble is, he's a bit big to play rough boy games with and it did get a bit hairy on occasions when we didn't play back, he got persistent - to the point of (almost) aggression. More food and now a herd to play with has sorted all that out and he's back to his very sweet self.

Good luck - it's worth persisting, even though the rearing can be very scary to deal with - just get bossy back and chase away until he knows he's not welcome in your space.
 
Not suggesting you buy another but could you find someone local with a youngster they could move in? I really think another youngster to play with would help.
 
It does sound like typical baby behaviour but all the same, it still needs to be nipped in the bud and sooner rather than later and it can be daunting. When I had a big 'nightmare' youngster (now 17hh) and was recovering from a badly broken ankle at the time (broken by the said youngster when leading her), I bought one of these http://www.worldwidetack.com/stephens-controller-headcollar-p-144.html. A Stephen's Controller Headcollar. They are expensive to buy new but I have seen the odd one on eBay second-hand. I bought my last one for £40 that way. 4 years on and fully recovered from the ankle injury I would still not be without mine.

I lead using one all the time these days and find it much safer to use than a headcollar (especially leading on the road to turnout) and it's much more convienient to use than a bit and bridle. Over the years when something unexpected has happened and one of the horses has spooked and shot off in-hand, this had never failed to stop it getting away from me and coming back to walk with the minimum of fuss. It works, full stop.
 
Well its good to know that more horses seem to do the same thing! I was starting to worry he was thinking I was a push over, haha! which I'm not!

My farrier said he has every faith in me to do well with him, so hopefully thats a good sign!

My friend is looking for a youngster to keep with me but she's knows what she wants and its not going to be easy to come by so might take a while! I might see if I can get a sheltand and then at least when we do have the two babies to work, the sheltand can stay and look after my mare!

How do you suggest standing firm when he is rearing right in front of me? do i take a lead rope and flick it at him? I just don't want him to think that I am playing back with him! because he is turning into a big boy, I realised that today when he was up vertical!

also would it be worth trying him on some supplements for horses that are a bit riggy? or just see how it goes being assertive?

my friend is just on her way over and thinks I should take the mare out for a hack, shes going to stay with him so he can get used to being left??! just worried he might hurt himself if hes being like this?
 
It's worth having a longer line than a 'normal' lead rope when they rear in front of you - you can get out of the wa yet still be attached when they come earth-bound again.

Either ignore the rear when it happens and just get the feet moving away from you when he's back on land, then take the headcollar off. Best of all would be to anticipate the rear (not always easy!) and keep the feet moving in circles away from you until you deem it safe to stand and remove the headcollar.

It's not easy to stay calm when you hav a horse on two legs in your face, try to breathe out, do what you have to do, then shake and have your 'moment' once you've left the field.

You will get through it!
 
I use a long lead rope 10ft ish and hang on. Mine learned that she couldn't get away from me anymore as she couldn't pull it out my reach and she'd still have to do what I wanted. Mine also ended up in a wheelbarrow before I sorted the rearing out...

I also got her walking with a dropped head, lightly pulling leadrope down rather than forward to move her, she now has no pressure and drops her head walking and if she hears something coming past her I just need to put light pressure (very light!) down and she drops her head and carries on. Took less than a week with her and she had only had a head collar on and handled about a week before that.

Edit: I also knew slightly before she was going to go up and would make her take a step backwards and tuck head in a little. She calms herself in the field if something scares her by tucking head down and relaxing herself now.

Pan
 
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Is it me or does anyone else think that Spyda's suggestion of that head collar could do a serious amount of damage in the wrong hands? Never mind it won't damage the mouth - looks as though it could seriously injure the nose and any other bits of the face that it gets yanked against?

But I suppose its like anything - a chiffney can be a useful tool - but a lethal weapon depending on who is using it?:confused:
 
grumpyoldmare said:
Is it me or does anyone else think that Spyda's suggestion of that head collar could do a serious amount of damage in the wrong hands? Never mind it won't damage the mouth - looks as though it could seriously injure the nose and any other bits of the face that it gets yanked against?

But I suppose its like anything - a chiffney can be a useful tool - but a lethal weapon depending on who is using it?:confused:
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I hadn't followed link. Personally I wouldn't use one unless trained and necessary.

Mine was an a*se and I was suggested all sorts of tools and equipment. A longer leadrope and growling worked and very quickly.

I have battles frequently with people who are quick to tool up rather than put the time in.

I also persuaded someone recently to not 'bit' with a leadrope. The last horse I knew led like this was shot later that day after snapping his neck.

As you say, like with anything, tools are only good when used correctly. Give a horse reason to want to do it right rather than be scared or puinished into doing it right. I understand if the situation is dangerous or if there are individual circumstances, but it is all too often the norm.

Pan
 
grumpyoldmare said:
Is it me or does anyone else think that Spyda's suggestion of that head collar could do a serious amount of damage in the wrong hands? Never mind it won't damage the mouth - looks as though it could seriously injure the nose and any other bits of the face that it gets yanked against?

But I suppose its like anything - a chiffney can be a useful tool - but a lethal weapon depending on who is using it?:confused:
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Very valid point Grumpyoldmare! It's not something you would ever want to use roughly. Infact, if you were to use one less than sympathetically then it could well make matters worse and certainly bruise the horses nasal area. But used sensibly and with care (ie. no hauling on it or yanking it so it clanks against the horses head) it works extremely well and certainly isn't more likely to cause bruising or rubbing than a chain across the nose or lead rope wrapped around the muzzle for leading in or (God forbid) a rope through the mouth. My extremely exuberant and willfull youngster learnt very quickly that she could no longer push into the halter and barge off and nor could she rear comfortably. Within a day she had taught herself to quit with the barging off and rearing when lead in this and it only took a wiggle on the end of the long rein I lead in to remind her to behave. BUT, I do agree - like a chifney, this would not be suitable for someone rough or inexperienced but it's excellent in the right hands. Like most things :) It's certainly gotten me out of more than one sticky situation.
 
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kerrieberry2 said:
How do you suggest standing firm when he is rearing right in front of me? do i take a lead rope and flick it at him? I just don't want him to think that I am playing back with him! because he is turning into a big boy, I realised that today when he was up vertical!
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I would avoid flicking him up there, I got someone to stand and clap or I'd shout when she got vertical and she realised it wasn't nice up there, it made nasty sounds, so got back down again. I wouldn't flick or do anything that might get him swinging at you while up.
Same with another who used to swing bum round. Clap when they thought about it and they quickly learned they didn't like doing it

Pan
 
grumpyoldmare said:
Is it me or does anyone else think that Spyda's suggestion of that head collar could do a serious amount of damage in the wrong hands? Never mind it won't damage the mouth - looks as though it could seriously injure the nose and any other bits of the face that it gets yanked against?
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It wouldn't be something I would recommend for the OP. But I can see its benefit for the more experienced handler.
 
PandorasJar said:
I would avoid flicking him up there, I got someone to stand and clap or I'd shout when she got vertical and she realised it wasn't nice up there, it made nasty sounds, so got back down again. I wouldn't flick or do anything that might get him swinging at you while up.
Same with another who used to swing bum round. Clap when they thought about it and they quickly learned they didn't like doing it

Pan
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I've always favoured the flapping arms or coat approach :D
 
He sounds like a typical baby, pushing the boundaries and by the sounds of it, winning!

Ideally he would have a few more dynamics in the field, a dominant mare to put him in hois place and youngsters to play hooligan with. I appraciate people's set up's do not make this possible all the time.

In which case you have to me the dominant mare and in no way accept hooligan playing.

Don't 'eventually' tell him off - do it immediately and sharply, be very black and white. Absolutely no rearing/boxing/biting, even in small doses.

Perhaps put some toys in his field - ball / type type stuff.
 
Have to say he'd have been finding out the poop scoop bites back if he had been being annoying, and hard if neccessary.. Also-wear a hat when you're in the field with him.
 
SusieT said:
Have to say he'd have been finding out the poop scoop bites back if he had been being annoying, and hard if neccessary.. Also-wear a hat when you're in the field with him.
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I've tried the poop a scoop bites back thing before and that made him worse, like he thought it was a game!

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I hope I can sort him out!

I have just hacked my mare out and left him on his own (with my friend) and he had a bit of a run around but then chilled out and ate his dinner and didnt fussy at all! then brought him back in from a groom and he was a good boy, no rearing when I put him back out! so hopefully he has just been trying it on!


we are also on the hunt for some friends for them both, so hopefully it will help!
 
To start with, I wouldn't take the wheelbarrow into the field with any horse but particularly not with a youngster like this, it's a serious accident waiting to happen.
Then I'd use a simple rope halter for leading, making sure that he was turned to face the gate when I let him go, so that if he kicked out I'd be out of the way. I don't like this idea of leading on a long rope/lunge-line - the further away the horse can get from you, the more power he has to pull you over and the more room he has to charge towards you, so the more danger you are in. I prefer to lead by walking next to the shoulder. With a bad-mannered horse such as this, I take a schooling whip with me and tap the knees if they look like coming up, tap the side if the horse stops. In general insist on good manners.
Then, I'd try to be two (metaphorical) steps in front of him, so that I was ready to jump on bad behaviour before he'd thought of it. I thought some of the language used in OP was very telling.........."eventually"..........." I tried telling him no"................."farrier gave him a good telling off and he calmed down".
Why are you waiting for the farrier to tell him off? You need to make sure that you are more confident than this horse and that YOU are in charge.
 
Can you get him turned out with other youngsters? Sounds like he is full of energy and I'm sure your mare likes the quieter life. It might help him to burn off some steam and be a baby which might help when handling him etc if he's got less energy.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
To start with, I wouldn't take the wheelbarrow into the field with any horse but particularly not with a youngster like this, it's a serious accident waiting to happen.
Then I'd use a simple rope halter for leading, making sure that he was turned to face the gate when I let him go, so that if he kicked out I'd be out of the way. I don't like this idea of leading on a long rope/lunge-line - the further away the horse can get from you, the more power he has to pull you over and the more room he has to charge towards you, so the more danger you are in. I prefer to lead by walking next to the shoulder. With a bad-mannered horse such as this, I take a schooling whip with me and tap the knees if they look like coming up, tap the side if the horse stops. In general insist on good manners.
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The long lead rope isn't to lead further away, but to be able to move a safe distance without letting go when they rear. I still lead mine right next to her, but stood on two legs I can't keep hold with a short leadrope. It is a brilliant piece of kit for youngsters. Leading itself has no difference.
I'd never suggest leading at a great distance, you'd have little control.

Pan
 
I havent read all the replies, but he sounds like my youngster was at 2!! I have had horses for 20 years, but never a youngster, so it was all a bit new to me....there were many, many, many times when I had my heart in my mouth thinking 'what the hell had I done' buying a hideous horse that reared and bucked every time I brought him out of the field!!

I stuck with it, poo picked with a schooling whip, so he knew I didn't want to play with him, and tried my best not to let him know I was worried when he was prancing about up in the air on his hind legs!!

He is now 5....I have backed him myself (with help from an instructor), and though sometimes he plays silly bu88ers, he is generally very well behaved!

I didn't have him out with youngsters, though at times I would have liked to....he was with my 2 mares who are now 10 and 19, so didn't really want to play with him either!!!

He was also a pain for the farrier, but I found a big bucket of chaff kept him fairly still....he is now not *too* bad, although I do have to intervene at times to prevent him from biting the farrier once he becomes bored (he does wear a full set of shoes now, so it takes a while!!)...but other than that he will stand tied up.

I am *so* glad I stuck with him....he brings me a huge amount of pleasure and it is so much more rewarding when you know you have done it all yourself :-)

Edited to add, I never used any gadgets/bits/long leadropes with mine....I gave him a tug on the leadrope when he used to rear, and growled at him....and generally tried desperately not to let on that I was in the least bit concerned!!!
 
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PandorasJar said:
The long lead rope isn't to lead further away, but to be able to move a safe distance without letting go when they rear. I still lead mine right next to her, but stood on two legs I can't keep hold with a short leadrope. It is a brilliant piece of kit for youngsters. Leading itself has no difference.
I'd never suggest leading at a great distance, you'd have little control.

Pan
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That's why you need to be 2 metaphorical steps in front of the horse, ready to nip any bad behaviour in the bud, before it happens. IMO you are putting yourself in danger if at any time you are any distance away from the horse. If the horse gets up onto its back legs, it can come down on you wherever you are along a long line. But I always lead with a rope halter, so I have complete control of the head.
 
You say you are bringing him in to feed him? What you feeding him and how much grass is he getting? He sounds like he is very well at the moment.
 
I Second amymay, I have been through all of the above with Ben, he tits around with wheelbarrow, thinks its his toy then gets angry at the invasion or me telling him no! he will send the odd kick at someone, initially he wants to play but if ignored he gets stroppy with them! he used to rear (just before he was gelded) he would rear in field and send a cheeky kick out, he would also do this when led! Mummy was not impressed!! I did use a chiffney but to be honest this worked because he would focus on the fact that he had something in his mouth and forgot about the other behaviour, he stopped rearing in the field after being gelded and I always make sure I have something I can chuck at his arse without getting in his strike zone in the field if he's in a mood. He is getting better and better with it all, but I've really had to toughen up, he's a cheeky little git with a temper and a half, which means I have to be on the ball and my reaction whether it be calm, verbal or action has to be stronger than his, it has taken me ages to read him and know what situations are actually him being naughty and which are him genuinely loosing the plot because he is unsure, but we have made so much progress and he can just be a little bit of a monster in his field from time to time now, if you are at all unsure get help, Ben shook my confidence a couple of times and I know how much it takes out of you to not let this show to your horse! Many times I would just leave him in field for a couple of days while I took a step back and chose a plan of action and grew a pair lol x good luck :)
 
Pearlsasinger said:
To start with, I wouldn't take the wheelbarrow into the field with any horse but particularly not with a youngster like this, it's a serious accident waiting to happen.
Then I'd use a simple rope halter for leading, making sure that he was turned to face the gate when I let him go, so that if he kicked out I'd be out of the way. I don't like this idea of leading on a long rope/lunge-line - the further away the horse can get from you, the more power he has to pull you over and the more room he has to charge towards you, so the more danger you are in. I prefer to lead by walking next to the shoulder. With a bad-mannered horse such as this, I take a schooling whip with me and tap the knees if they look like coming up, tap the side if the horse stops. In general insist on good manners.
Then, I'd try to be two (metaphorical) steps in front of him, so that I was ready to jump on bad behaviour before he'd thought of it. I thought some of the language used in OP was very telling.........."eventually"..........." I tried telling him no"................."farrier gave him a good telling off and he calmed down".
Why are you waiting for the farrier to tell him off? You need to make sure that you are more confident than this horse and that YOU are in charge.
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Sorry, I think some of this is unnecessarily harsh...

Don't most people poo pick with a wheelbarrow? (I'm certainly not going to bu**er my back by carrying a bucket around!) As long as it's not a metal one I don't really see the problem. Some don't have the luxury of bringing horses in and so are forced to poo pick with them in the field.

I also think that the long lead rope is an excellent idea - if the worst happens you can keep hold of them whilst avoiding flying hooves. And it's only a safeguard for if the worst happens; no-one is suggesting that you should lead anything other than normally.

If one has never handled youngsters, they can be daunting and they will test to the limit, just like children. OP, sounds like in general you're doing a good job and trying to be consistent (we can all slip occasionally!)
 
I have used a Dually on all our youngsters, & have to say they all have excellent manners & lead beautifully. That is not to say they haven't tried it on! I attach it to a very long line (lunge line will do), so when they go up (& they all try to at some point) you don't get sucked in underneath them, but can stand your ground & still tell them 'no' with the pressure from the halter. I would also suggest that until you have this behaviour under control you wear a hard hat around him, even when leading. As for the barrow, can someone take one in the field when you have him in a controller headcollar so you can get him to understand that it is not his toy? I think your life will be better once you have established your dominant place & he respects your personal space (in which the wheelbarrow & poop scoop are when you are poo picking. Would it be worth looking up some intelligent horsemanship demos to see if there is one near you where you can enter him as a demo horse? Sure they'd like to hear about his interest in the poo scoop & barrow!;)

As you are feeling at a low ebb currently it may give you the confidence you are looking for.
 
just thought I'd give you all an update on my little monster! Things seemed to have improved recently! he's still rearing, occassionally but (touch wood) not when I am in the field poo picking!

I have started taking my mare out every few days for a short hack and taking her for a longer time each time and the days that I do this he seems to be really pleased to have her back and tends to leave me alone while poo picking, or if he does come over he's not being too pushy, just interested! have started to turn the barrow so its between us if he's trying to follow me and this seems to be helping! defo makes me feel so much more confident!

I have also been taking him out for walks as my friend has offered to come with me, so we have 2 lead ropes on him and I am so pleased with how hes been going, today we passed 3 cyclists, sheep, england flags etc and he raised his head to look at everything but there was no signs or rearing though fear! we even got a trot in hand for the first time today :)

the other day we passed a house with the 2 biggest dogs ever, all horses are scared of them!! they were barking on one side and the house opposite were out with a chain saw or something and he stopped to workout what was going on and then walked on without showing any signs or wanting to do anything dangerous!

I've stopped using my rope halter as he was chucking his head in the air every time I went to do it up and found that he reared more often in that, so got him a normal soft head collar which seems to have helped, so far! so fingers x'd we are getting somewhere now!

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