Bitting advice for rein snatcher

[Sarahkinks]

Hi all,

Hope everyone is keeping safe and well.

I’ve got a minor issue with my horse rein snatching and would like a bit of advice/experience please...

Our 11yo ID has a rein snatching habit that I’d like to try and address but as we are currently in lock down getting bitting or other experts out to the yard isn’t really an option as it’s not an essential visit.

We’ve only had him about 9 months and we don’t know much about his history but he’s an amazing all round nice horse. He’s great natured and hasn’t yet said no to anything, he’s got such a lovely temperament and is good to do in every way. The only thing that isn’t ideal is this snatching habit, he’s done it since we’ve had him so isn’t a new behaviour. He does it mostly hacking, even on a loose rein, but does do it in the school sometimes too when you pick up a contact. The snatching isn’t severe enough to unseat you but is quite annoying and is enough to make me wonder if its something other than a bad habit, such as discomfort related to his bit perhaps...
He’s a nice safe hack so I tend to ride on a loose rein, and if I let my reins go all together and hold the buckle he still does it. He tends to snatch downwards rather than throwing his head around. We’ve had back, teeth and saddle checked prior to lockdown - all fine.

we’ve been riding him in a rubber fixed ring egbutt snaffle which is what the dealer we bought him from was using. He wasn’t with the dealer long as we snapped him up, and we don’t know what his previous Irish owners ride him in (he was hunted predominantly). He has very good brakes so not looking for anything stronger. He’s a chunky boy so wondered if the current bit might be too thick for his mouth as have read that this can cause some discomfort, or whether the nutcracker action of the egbutt might not suit him well.
As we have time on our hands at the moment I was thinking of getting a couple of other bits from the bit bank just to see how he goes and do a bit of trial and error.

I was thinking maybe something thinner with a lozenge to begin with. Has anybody else had this issue or similar and have any recommendations?
Many thanks and sorry for rambling post. ?

 

[be positive]

A single jointed rubber snaffle would not be a bit I would choose so trying something new is a good idea, he may take a while to stop the snatching even if the new bit is more comfy as it is now a fairly established habit so give each bit a few tries before moving to a different one, unless he really shows a dislike, your idea of a thinner bit with lozenge is a good choice, I would go for a loose ring so he can move it about a little and he may find where it sits better in his mouth, a fixed ring will give less movement so if he fiddles and moves a loose ring too much that will be option 2.

Also look at how the bridle fits, is the headpiece or browband a bit tight, saddle fit can cause issues that are not obviously related, I took on a headshaker once that had been in a saddle that was far too narrow and pinching behind his withers directly cause him to shake his head, he ended up in an xxw from a med saddle as he built up his topline, he also required a lot of physio so something else to consider as a root cause of your issues, a saddle may appear to fit but sometimes the horse thinks otherwise.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Agree with be positive regarding saddle fit. Also,just a thought, but check that the bit isn't too low or high in his mouth. Horses can find this pretty irritating.

 

[rextherobber]

Agree with BP. Mine is better in a Bombers ultra comfy lock up loose ring snaffle and a Micklem bridle, he has an adjustable saddle which is checked every 12 weeks, and has 12 week Physio as well.

 

[Quigleyandme]

My 11 year old ISH gift horse used to do this too and while it also wasn‘t enough to unseat me it was really irritating. I changed the french link snaffle bit he came with to a snaffle with a low port and lozenge and he stopped doing it.

 

[Shay]

If you contact the bit bank you can hire bits for 30 days - allows you to experiment without ending up with a truely impressive collection of bits that didn't suit. They can also advise on what bit is likely to be suitable.

 

[Kaylum]

Dentist the bit could be catching on a tooth? Which groove does the bit sit in, the higher or lower. Do you have any photos of how your bridle fits.

 

[Sarahkinks]

Dentist the bit could be catching on a tooth? Which groove does the bit sit in, the higher or lower. Do you have any photos of how your bridle fits.

Thanks all for the replies, definitely going to look at trying him in something with a lozenge from the bit bank to see if that works.

His teeth were done about 3 months ago and all was good. I don’t have any pics of him up close with bridle on, will take one tomorrow, he’s ridden in a flash as he does tend to open his mouth quite a bit. But now I’m wondering if that’s because the bit doesn’t suit him...
I’m not too sure how to check which groove the bit sits in, not needed to before, any tips on how to do that much appreciated ?

 

[DreamTime22]

Agree with above about all the checks. I put mine in a loose ring lozenge snaffle as she can do this and occasionally lean on the bit too. The loose ring ness has helped but not stopped the issue. I think the rest is schooling issues - but there are plenty of them

 

[Kaylum]

Thanks all for the replies, definitely going to look at trying him in something with a lozenge from the bit bank to see if that works.

His teeth were done about 3 months ago and all was good. I don’t have any pics of him up close with bridle on, will take one tomorrow, he’s ridden in a flash as he does tend to open his mouth quite a bit. But now I’m wondering if that’s because the bit doesn’t suit him...
I’m not too sure how to check which groove the bit sits in, not needed to before, any tips on how to do that much appreciated ?

Basically have a look in his mouth by lifting the side of the lips. If the bit is too far up in the mouth it might be catching on molars. Also the fit of the bridle is very important. Just take some photos and will to help you.

 

[Sarahkinks]

 

[Sarahkinks]

Took some pics tonight. He’s been out in the rain so looks like a wet toilet brush ?
The pics aren’t great but hopefully they give some idea of his bridle and bit position.

he got very suspicious of me lifting his lip up and trying to take a photo, bless him, but the bit didn’t look to be catching on his molars.

I have ordered a sweet iron loose ring snaffle with copper lozenge to try...

Thanks I’d advance for any thoughts or tips ?

Basically have a look in his mouth by lifting the side of the lips. If the bit is too far up in the mouth it might be catching on molars. Also the fit of the bridle is very important. Just take some photos and will to help you.

 

[tatty_v]

My friend had exactly the same problem with her horse. We switched initially to a loose ring sweet iron snaffle with a lozenge, and then to a fixed ring, which he seems to prefer. He still does it from time to time but for her boy it’s a bit of an evasion and happens when you ask him to do something he doesn’t fancy doing eg stopping out hacking or schooling!

 

[Shilasdair]

You need to raise the top noseband on the flash higher, as it's too low at the moment. It also needs to be snug enough that it isn't pulled down by the drop part (which looks to be too tight in your photos).
And I agree that the bit looks too big for his mouth - I'd try a French link instead.

 

[Sarahkinks]

You need to raise the top noseband on the flash higher, as it's too low at the moment. It also needs to be snug enough that it isn't pulled down by the drop part (which looks to be too tight in your photos).
And I agree that the bit looks too big for his mouth - I'd try a French link instead.

Great, thank you ?? I will raise the cavesson up a bit as agree it looks too low now you mention it. The flash isn’t tight, can easily get a finger between his muzzle and the strap. The bit Ive ordered is a loose ring with a thinner mouthpiece and a lozenge so I’m hoping he finds that more comfortable - fingers crossed!

 

[Kaylum]

yes agree the noseband is too low I would even take it off see how he goes in that. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Sarahkinks]

yes agree the noseband is too low I would even take it off see how he goes in that. Let us know how you get on.

Thanks v much, have popped the cavesson up a couple of holes. The new bit has arrived and it fits, looks so much thinner in his mouth which is a great start. Going to try riding in it tomorrow so will see how he goes.

I’m hoping he’ll be more comfortable. However the snatching is quite an established habit, so I’m expecting some schooling will be needed in addition to the new bit. If anyone has any tips on where/how to start with the schooling that would be much appreciated ??

I’ve tried ignoring it, tightening my arms (not my reins) to make the contact less comfortable, a small tap with the stick, a small dig in the ribs etc when he does it and nothing has made a difference. I imagine I haven’t been consistent enough, but I want to be consistent in doing the right thing so any tips/experience would be great!
Thanks all ?

 

[mini_b]

ISH often have fleshy tongue/lips and low palate, perhaps the tongue pressure is too much from a link/jointed bit? I’ve found bomber happy tongue/low port types suit.

with regard to re schooling him, if he’s unhappy with what’s in his mouth hes going to snatch/tell you in some way or another. Try give him a chance to adjust and work out if mouth piece is right for him before you “work him” through it. Give it time to see if he’s being evasive for sake of it rather than he’s uncomfortable.

also another vote for the bit bank as it saves you building up an impressive collection that you don’t use! The advice they offer is good

 

[jhoward]

I'd be wanting a bit an extra half inch bigger....have you measured your bit? Most horses of a cobby type will want a 5 1/5 to a 6 inch.

You could break down where the issue is coming from, some mentioned saddle, try him bare back,

Try him in just a headcollar with a saddle...

I'd also have a look at how tight his bridle was over the poll.

Does he do it if you long rein him?

You can get such a thing called bit wrap that may also be worth a try.

 

[JennBags]

Have you tried removing the flash? What's the reason for having it?

 

[Sarahkinks]

Have you tried removing the flash? What's the reason for having it?

we have the flash as he has quite a tendency to open his mouth, we did try a few hacks without it a while back but the snatching and messing about with his mouth was much worse.
however I’m thinking that could be because his bit didn’t suit so now his new bit is here I’m going to try him without the flash now and see what happens ??

 

[Sarahkinks]

I'd be wanting a bit an extra half inch bigger....have you measured your bit? Most horses of a cobby type will want a 5 1/5 to a 6 inch.

You could break down where the issue is coming from, some mentioned saddle, try him bare back,

Try him in just a headcollar with a saddle...

I'd also have a look at how tight his bridle was over the poll.

Does he do it if you long rein him?

You can get such a thing called bit wrap that may also be worth a try.

Yes 100%. Thanks for this, great idea to go through the list and eliminate things ?

today we will start with the bit. I bought half inch bigger as it’s a loose ring and fits perfectly. He’s a big chap so normally wears 6” so have bought 6.5” and it looks good.

we’ve not tried long reining him, have done with others in the past though. I’m expecting given that he’s an Irish hunter so he hasn’t done much ‘proper’ education he’ll find it a bit confusing ?
He lunges well though and doesn’t do it on the lunge with or without (loose ish) side reins...

 

[Sarahkinks]

I was just posting another thread and it reminded me that I never updated on this.

Thanks to all the great advice from HHO members his new bit fits well and he’s so much more comfortable. He’s working much rounder in the school and the rein snatching has all but stopped (he does it very occasionally when he’s demonstrating some attitude ?). He’s even out of his flash and now being ridden in a simple but fitting hunter style cavesson noseband that much better suits his enormous head!

it also turned out he is a seasonal head shaker and as a result of some research on old HHO threads we have alleviated that too.

Just goes to show that HHO is such a valuable resource so wanted to say thanks to all who helped by posting on here. We have a much more comfortable and happy horse