Bitting advice for strong and rude Connemara

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Charlie31

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I’m sure this has been done before but I’m looking for bitting suggestions for my very strong and rather rude Connemara. Mostly this is for exciting activities when we’re in company such as fun rides and fast group hacks. He is also starting to get quite strong and take a hold when we go cross country too so some help there would be good. Flatwork and showjumping is fine and in fact I usually have to kick him on when we’re doing schooling.

He’s a typical snatcher and leaner. In walk and trot he snatches really quite strongly, as soon as we pick up the pace he just puts his head down and sets hard against me. He’s just started a new one too where when we’re doing a fast canter he’ll set and lean but will also do a bit of a pull with each stride in a further attempt to get away from me. Pulling up can be really quite a challenge and often requires some advance planning.

Clearly he’s just very excited but I need to have a bit more control than I currently do in these situations and him tanking around like this is no good for his mouth either, or my rather weary muscles!

Currently I’m using a Neue Schule Waterford snaffle on him. Whoever said they can’t set against these has clearly never met my horse because he really can! So what sort of bits have any of you used with any success on similar horses?

I’ve been looking at tom thumbs and Dutch gags as possibilities but am unsure on what mouthpiece as there seems to be so much choice available and I’m thinking to maybe try something different to the Waterford. I know it’s all going to be trial and error but any advice on any kind of bit that has helped would be gratefully received. Also realise that at the end of the day it may be difficult to do much about a horse that gets this excited but I think it has to be at least worth a try.

TIA.
 
Trial and error with bits tbh!

I would try a Tom thumb with a strap under the chin, used this combination in the past and it has worked really well.

Might be worth seeing if you could borrow a myler combination to try as he may respond better to nose pressure, however I have found in the past that this type of bit doesn't work long term.

My other favourite would be a slotted kimblewick with curb.

It's quite difficult to find the right bit when they pull you down and snatch without over bitting, good luck :)
 
Aha I read this title and thought yep, my Connie is just the same. Frankly I have come to the conclusion that if he wants to go he will go and I would rather have him in a snaffle so that I don't do his mouth any damage for most things. When I really, really need to be able to stop him (and this still doesn't work for hunting) I use a dutch gag.
 
Michen said:
Aha I read this title and thought yep, my Connie is just the same. Frankly I have come to the conclusion that if he wants to go he will go and I would rather have him in a snaffle so that I don't do his mouth any damage for most things. When I really, really need to be able to stop him (and this still doesn't work for hunting) I use a dutch gag.
Click to expand...

Thanks all.

His teeth were done less than a month ago so no problems there.

I think it is just that Connies can be a bit obnoxious and don't mind using their strength to get their own way! I think you're right that if they want to go they will do and this bit will only be for use when needed in the exciting situations, but at the moment he's doing quite a lot of damage to his mouth himself in his snaffle with all the snatching and leaning he does!

Have you ever considered trying a calmer with your boisterous Connie? I don't think I can see it making much difference really but he can be a bit highly strung in general so I'm semi wondering if it might be worth a go.
 
One of my connies naturally goes like a snowplough & is very strong. The NS elevator with Waterford mouthpiece was hopeless as he managed to lean on it, however a loose ring 3 ring gag version combined with a grakle gave me loads of brakes. The first time I tried that combo out hunting I actually used a kineton instead of a grakle and that was far too much so I took that off and swapped it over for the rest of the day. As we move off from the meet I remind him that I have the ABS system installed and after that he is as good as gold, never pulls and will even walk quietly at the back nannying baby horses whilst everyone else gallops off. A Pelham with 2 reins also works well on him as the curb rein can be used to sharpen up the reaction at the beginning of the day when he is feeling a bit gung ho & yobbish! He has now totally got the message and from being exhausting to hunt is now an absolute pleasure and one I can offer to anyone to borrow to do anything on & will probably go back to just using the universal for fast work.

ETA if I give mine an opportunity to lean on me whilst schooling he will and we fall into a vicious cycle of bracing against each other. If I make a conscious effort not to let him lean he is perfectly capable of lifting his front end and working beautifully
 
Have found a french link 3 ring dutch gag works far better than a Waterford (IMHO).
Obviously used with 2 reins :) Bottom rein is tested in arena, tho rarely came into play except for xc and hunting and then only as a reminder.
One I also had running martingale on the top rein too, tho this was an animal who 'could' hack in simple french link snaffle....

Hope you find something to work OP :)
 
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Thank you all, a few things to think about there.

LCH611 said:
One of my connies naturally goes like a snowplough & is very strong. The NS elevator with Waterford mouthpiece was hopeless as he managed to lean on it, however a loose ring 3 ring gag version combined with a grakle gave me loads of brakes. The first time I tried that combo out hunting I actually used a kineton instead of a grakle and that was far too much so I took that off and swapped it over for the rest of the day. As we move off from the meet I remind him that I have the ABS system installed and after that he is as good as gold, never pulls and will even walk quietly at the back nannying baby horses whilst everyone else gallops off. A Pelham with 2 reins also works well on him as the curb rein can be used to sharpen up the reaction at the beginning of the day when he is feeling a bit gung ho & yobbish! He has now totally got the message and from being exhausting to hunt is now an absolute pleasure and one I can offer to anyone to borrow to do anything on & will probably go back to just using the universal for fast work.

ETA if I give mine an opportunity to lean on me whilst schooling he will and we fall into a vicious cycle of bracing against each other. If I make a conscious effort not to let him lean he is perfectly capable of lifting his front end and working beautifully
Click to expand...

When you said "a loose ring 3 ring gag version" do you mean still with the NS waterford mouthpiece (i.e. the waterford universal) or a different one?

Illusion100 said:
I had a connie once that liked to get the bit in his teeth, put his head between his knees and tank off around the XC, well he did it once. I put in an elevator/american gag http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/2614...rlsatarget=pla-181484323506&adtype=pla&crdt=0 with a grakle noseband for the next time, gave him a taste of his own medicine and I never needed anything stronger than a snaffle after that.
Click to expand...

A couple of recommendations for a grackle then. He just goes in a cavesson at the moment but I had been wondering whether something like a grackle might help. Have been trying to avoid it due to not wanting to have more leather to clean but perhaps being able to stop is more important than tack cleaning laziness in this case!
 
Thank you all, a few things to think about there.

LCH611 said:
One of my connies naturally goes like a snowplough & is very strong. The NS elevator with Waterford mouthpiece was hopeless as he managed to lean on it, however a loose ring 3 ring gag version combined with a grakle gave me loads of brakes. The first time I tried that combo out hunting I actually used a kineton instead of a grakle and that was far too much so I took that off and swapped it over for the rest of the day. As we move off from the meet I remind him that I have the ABS system installed and after that he is as good as gold, never pulls and will even walk quietly at the back nannying baby horses whilst everyone else gallops off. A Pelham with 2 reins also works well on him as the curb rein can be used to sharpen up the reaction at the beginning of the day when he is feeling a bit gung ho & yobbish! He has now totally got the message and from being exhausting to hunt is now an absolute pleasure and one I can offer to anyone to borrow to do anything on & will probably go back to just using the universal for fast work.

ETA if I give mine an opportunity to lean on me whilst schooling he will and we fall into a vicious cycle of bracing against each other. If I make a conscious effort not to let him lean he is perfectly capable of lifting his front end and working beautifully
Click to expand...

When you said "a loose ring 3 ring gag version" do you mean still with the NS waterford mouthpiece (i.e. the waterford universal) or a different one?

Illusion100 said:
I had a connie once that liked to get the bit in his teeth, put his head between his knees and tank off around the XC, well he did it once. I put in an elevator/american gag http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/2614...rlsatarget=pla-181484323506&adtype=pla&crdt=0 with a grakle noseband for the next time, gave him a taste of his own medicine and I never needed anything stronger than a snaffle after that.
Click to expand...

A couple of recommendations for a grackle then. He just goes in a cavesson at the moment but I had been wondering whether something like a grackle might help. Have been trying to avoid it due to not wanting to have more leather to clean but perhaps being able to stop is more important than tack cleaning laziness in this case!
 
The NS elevator I had , had a fixed mouthpiece and I got a cheap & cheerful loose ring one with a Waterford mouthpiece and he doesn't seem to be able to lean on that! The grakle seems to be an important element, but once we had established that rudeness was unacceptable he gave in. Some of the leaning & carting is due to his conformation, some is due to laziness (it is easier for him to go that way), some due to lack of discipline on my part (it is easiest to not insist that he works properly every time he is ridden), and some is due to yobbishness! However the yobbishness is the other side of a very cheery gung-ho approach to life that means he will gamely have a crack at anything so I can't really complain about it......
 
Mine goes in a NS verbindend for most things but needs more for xc, fun rides and when I team chased him. A loose ring Waterford with rubber bit guards and a cavesson with flash works well as a combination. He doesn't much like it but that's more because he can't bog off!! 😁
 
Thanks for these later replies and sorry for not saying thank you sooner. I'm off to look at cheaper bits to start with then as why pay more if you don't have to? Would be interested to see the difference in how he goes in a cheap Waterford compared to the NS one actually.

Totally agree about the flip side of the yobbishness being a very cheerful horse that's generally up for it. Mine is exactly the same, will give anything a go (and get me out of trouble when I've cocked things up) and has a hugely entertaining personality. I wouldn't swap him for anything, even though he's a bit of a d*ck at times!
 
I've found if they lean hard enough against a waterford then it just sets the links into one line that they can pull against!
It might be worth considering a thinner mouthpiece, Connie's often have quite a fat tongue and lips and a thinner mouth piece can sit in their mouth better :)
 
We are huge fans of the kineton noseband - it works when they lean and snatch, as you decribe yours doing, but doesn't put any pressure on if they are polite.

The last couple of strong horses we've had - one had a cheltenham gag with flash (to stop him opening his mouth and biting his tongue) and kineton noseband. The other has a big ring waterford Salisbury gag (ie a loose ring version of the cheltenham) with a cavesson noseband for the standing martingale (he carries his head very high) and a kineton.
 
I currently use a NS tranz angled universal with a curb strap for jumping mine who can be rather obnoxious jumping (tends to grab, set his neck and run). The universal seems to be effective enough 99% of the time but I would say that I've found steering slightly more difficult in this bit. I've used a double bridle with success before but like LouisCat said their mouths do tend to have less room and I found there was just not really enough space for the two bits.
I tried numerous bits before I settled with the current one so would just suggest trying lots of different options and look at the bit bank for trials if you can't borrow them.
 
Charlie31 said:
A couple of recommendations for a grackle then. He just goes in a cavesson at the moment but I had been wondering whether something like a grackle might help. Have been trying to avoid it due to not wanting to have more leather to clean but perhaps being able to stop is more important than tack cleaning laziness in this case!
Click to expand...

The grackle came back into play on occasion depending on the style of XC but it was the gag (one I linked to post) that did the job of stopping him from tanking about with his head between his knees. He was a proper old fashionned type connie, not a dainty little show type version as well.
 
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