Bitting advice please, esp rubber pelhams...

kerilli

kerilli

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I'm still trying to find something that will give me brakes for jumping my sensitive and slightly hysterical mare. Tendency to rush off a few strides after landing, and invert if possible. So, something to lower head ideally. Ridiculous/dangerous in a snaffle tbh. ditto bitless. She's ripped her mouth in the past (well, or I have, in a determined attempt not to meet a fence at warp speed) so ideally something to make her back off and not pull against me.
I've got a vulcanite pelham which is a bit like a brick wall in her mouth, sort of works but gives me no feel at all.
So, are rubber pelhams better? At WFP lecture/demo he said rubber pelhams are much better than vucanite, he only uses the former. Are they quite bendy (like rubber snaffle)? I've never got my hands on one and looking online isn't helping, obv! Are they always the same thickness of mouthpiece?
or, other suggestions please. I am very very soft with my hands in the air so not worried about using a strong bit.
Thankyou.
 
Being utterly unhelpful and ignoring the question as I've never seen one or ridden in one either, have you thought about a jointed pelham or a waterford pelham? Having the joint (or several) does help with a horse which tends to lean/have a wooden feel to it as I have discovered with my horse, so as they are significantly easier to get hold of and can be hired, might be worth a try?
 
i've thought about both tbh. trouble with jointed pelham is i think it's giving 2 contradictory messages - joint raises head, doesn't it? curb lowers it. i thought i'd try a simple one and move onto the more complicated ones if necessary!
your horse was in jointed pelham with you, i remember you saying. how did he pull etc before you tried that one?
did you have a good time at Badders btw? buy lots?
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I bought nothing, which as a tax-payer who is currently supporting me you should be grateful for
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Badminton was fabby though, had a great time!!

No, I don't find it at all contradictory TBH. B is a horse who will, for preference, stick his head in the air and run through my hands to tackle the fence at whatever speed he chooses, and there is a limited amount I can do with my body weight to check him when he does this. He also has a bit of a wooden mouth, more so in the corners, and when he has dropped his head will lean like crazy on my hands because I think he believes I should hold his head up for him!

So what I find I have in the jointed pelham is a horse who still has the higher head carriage that he prefers and that trainers have told me not to mess with, but it just tucks his nose in and stops him inverting his neck and using that against me, so I can keep him more supple in the neck and so have more control with my body when SJ. I rarely have to do more than maintain the contact in it TBH, whereas in other bits I was hauling and hooking all over the place to try and maintain some semblance of a sensible speed.
 
Jointed pelham all the way. Not quite the same, but I've known a lot of TB ex-racehorses-turned-polo-ponies (where it's important that the horses have brakes and do not stick their heads in the air and bugger off with you) and they are either played in a gag or a pelham. 99% of them will immediately go better in a jointed lozenge type pelham. Must have a good curb chain though. Know a few people with very strong hunters will actually jump them a few times in a standing martingale to stop them from inverting and pissing off - not something I've ever tried and maybe not for a sensitive type, but have seen it work well on some horses.


ETS:- just out of curiousity, have you tried a kineton noseband?
 
I use single joint but if I am entirely honest that is because that is what the tack shop had and I had a bitting crisis and only a week between events!

It is worth noting though that my horse hates a single jointed snaffle, but really does go well in a single jointed pelham - no idea why, but it does mean if she doesn't like single joints in some bits she may be fine with this one?
 
I use the double jointed, French link/lozenge type on mine. Neue Schule do a nice one - what size do you want? I only have use mine for hunting so you can borrow it and try it out over the summer if you want? I think it's a 5.5"..
 
I have had no success with jointed pelhams. I only use them for showing where I need a pelham for double reins and to look correct but want it to actually act like a snaffle.

My horse who is incredibly fussy was horrendous in a jointed pelham he ran straight through it and trainer commented that they are not very effective and to get rid of it. Vulcanite was good until I actually went xc and I had absolutely no brakes - it was scary. He just dropped his head and towed me round. I ride him now in a 3 ring french link gag. He is very happy in it.

On big warmblood who shreds his mouth I have had great success in a slotted kimblewick. It keeps him off the forehand and twice now he has come back without any cuts/tears. In a pelham or gag he is a nightmare.
 
Try a Mik Mar pelham? I know they are not easy to find,but they are made of aluminium and although they look grotesque,horses tend to accept them really well. I use a normal Mik Mar on Manneken,who is mega strong,but with a 'girly' mouth, and he's never had so much as a bruise from it. The pelham version,I use for hacking and it's ace,brakes AND relaxation!!!!!
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Just a thought. Watch out though,they are 'trés' expensive,try and borrow one first!!!!
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Oddly, I was reading down, just going to ask if you'd tried a Mik Mar! Great minds . . .:)

They do look quite frightening but in fact, if you do some reading, part of their purpose is to distribute pressure and "stabilise" the bit's action. Ironically, given the way they look, they're touted as good bits for sensitive horses and/or novice riders. (No offence, obviously, just a comment towards the fact that the company doesn't sell them as a "big set of brakes", rather a different approach.)

The various bits went through a very fashionable period in North America, especially with Eq horses and jumpers and they seemed just the ticket for some horses in some situations. There are quite a few different models though, and as sj_mummy says, they're megabucks to buy, so maybe find a loaner if you can . . .
 
surely a joint in a pelham will render the curb action useless up to a point until the cheeks have been rotated with quite a haul. Happy mouth pelhams are lighter than vulc and rubber and more slender..
 
happy mouth pelham she hated. kimblewick didn't work at all. american gag with copper middle link is okay but not fab, and i'm wary of the leverage.
thanks for suggestions. i'd never thought of a mikmar pelham.
right, off to scour ebay!
thankyou. kit, i'll pm you, thanks!
 
ive used a rubber pelham for a strong horse before and it was fine until.........he chomped all the way through the rubber!! so just be careful!!!
 
Sorry, i saw that you asked about bitting in my Withington Adv. report, but i never got round to replying.. so i'll reply here instead
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I was riding him in a 3 ring gag last season, for no good reason, as a) i don't like them, but b) Austin used to ride him in one, so i didn't want to change what he was happy in, however c) i feel bits are more for riders than horses, in that a certain rider will get on well with a certain bit in all horses.. change the rider on a horse, and the bit that horse goes well in might change....

So, although i've never found Ernie strong at all (Int/2* level) he was still coming back from XC with a split mouth, even though i thought i wasn't fighting him
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He was also jumping in an 'up-turned-banana' way
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so i decided to invest in a bendy pelham..
I've used it a few times now... SJing over the winter was good, first time out i found him very strong, but put it down to being only a 1.10, so nothing to back him off.. then my first go XC, Int. level at Aldon and Powderham, where he was fab, not strong and making a much better shape over his fences...
However 3rd time XC was the Adv. at Withington, where for obvious reasons i must have set him 'alight' much more.. I found him the strongest i've ever found him, i really was fighting him in places... BUT he DIDN'T come back with a split mouth and he was still jumping in a nice shape...
My first thought when i spoke to my trainer about it was, help, need new bitting ideas, i can't hold him...
She just said, we can't all look like WFP/Andrew Hoy all the time, if hauling like a PC kid worked, which it did as i had the best ride XC i've ever had, don't change anything..
So i'll be riding XC at Chatsworth in the same 'get-up'..

So, general thoughts re. the bendy pelham..
1) good for horses sensitive in the mouth.
2) didn't cut his mouth, even with alot of hauling.
3) encouraged a rounder jump.
4) did still find him strong in it.. but i like strong horses
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Sorry, not really much help.. but my thoughts on the bendy pelham..
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[ QUOTE ]
c) i feel bits are more for riders than horses, in that a certain rider will get on well with a certain bit in all horses.. change the rider on a horse, and the bit that horse goes well in might change....



[/ QUOTE ]

That is such an interesting idea MdS (BTW, isn't it time you changed your name back?
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) I agree, although I've never thought of it tht way before. There are certainly some bits which I seem to find work well on a variety of horses for me, but might not be everybody's cup of tea - the little Tom Thumb gags and their snaffle equivalent being a good example in my case.
 
I have aa old bendy rubber pelham somewhere, it will be 5 or 5.5in

It's not the nicest looking bit as it has nickel cheeks but you can have it for £5 to cover the postage if you want
 
What about a straight bar vulcanite pelham with a port ed mouthpiece? Never seems to cut the mouth, and Woody liked it lots when he was going through his strong phase. You are welcome to borrow mine if you like, its 5.5.

Also have you tried a tom thumb bit with the special metals? that was awesome on my last TB
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
c) i feel bits are more for riders than horses, in that a certain rider will get on well with a certain bit in all horses.. change the rider on a horse, and the bit that horse goes well in might change....



[/ QUOTE ]

That is such an interesting idea MdS (BTW, isn't it time you changed your name back?
wink.gif
) I agree, although I've never thought of it tht way before. There are certainly some bits which I seem to find work well on a variety of horses for me, but might not be everybody's cup of tea - the little Tom Thumb gags and their snaffle equivalent being a good example in my case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's because we all have a certain ideal "feel" we like and seek to balance the horse-bit-rider connection to get as close as possible to that. It probably works the other way around, too, with the horse liking/expecting/being trained to a particular feel so works best when the balance gives that result.

I think we also favour bits we're used to and have been "taught" (maybe subconsciously) to ride a variety of horses in because we know exactly what sort of reactions to expect in them. It also removes one variable so we're more able to get a clearer read on what input the horse is producing. I "know" what a full/D cheek snaffle feels like because it's my preferred bit for starting horses so I've ridden in it a lot. (It's also the standard basic bitting arrangement in the "school" of riding I grew up in.) So if I'm assessing a horse I like to start in that as I find I can get a neutral result in it more easily. If the horse objects to the single joint I can switch to a french link or vice versa. I know many people who have "grown up" in the dressage world who have the same default attitude towards loose ring snaffles or varying mouthpiece configuration.

I've also found if I "make" a horse for a much stronger/weaker/less experienced rider I can usually hazard a guess as to what bit that rider might prefer on that specific horse. When I schooled a lot of horses for smaller kids/teenagers to ride I would do most of the work in a fairly thick snaffle and then "move the horse up" to one of a small variety of other snaffles so they could produce the same effect with a little less effort. Same with bitting for competition - if I know how a horse reacts to a bit I know well, I can more accurately guess how it might react under different circumstances to other bits I know.

I think there are increasing numbers of bits that produce very specific effects. The danger is people borrow one that works for someone else, it doesn't work for their particular situation, so they pronounce a whole line/type/make of bits rubbish. If you're going to use specialised tools you have to understand EXACTLY how they work and when they're applicable.

Hmm, apparently it's all about me . . .:D

Anyway, I do very much agree with MDS (and agree about the name change, however smart I find the current pun) that bits are often just as much, if not more for riders as horses.
 
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