Bitting advice - strong horse hunting & xc

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Christmas Crumpet

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I have a lovely 15.1hh coloured mw cob who I can ride off the neck strap at home but out hunting he is a ******!! He has a big neck and sets himself against me. He tucks his head right in to his chest and goes. He is in a neue schule Cheltenham gag with leather cheeks and a grackle. He was great in this to start with but has just got a little bit wise to it now. I always let him have his head when galloping and let him go and I keep him up front so as to not have to fight with him. I would just like to be able to go into a fence without him dictating how he thinks we should do it and go in sensibly because otherwise I can't get a good canter and therefore a good stride into anything. Trotting in is fine!!

The dentist was out yesterday and she was happy wth how the bit fitted etc. We msg'ed each other earlier and talked about rope cheeks or a Waterford nelson gag. A friend has suggested I try her bomber Pelham but I'm not sure what to try. If I did go for the Waterford and he's a 5" normally, would a 5.75" with avocello bit guards be the right size?

Grid work lessons will hopefully get the jumping to improve (!!) but I'd like to get the brakes right too.

Put this in here because I thought all you eventers might have a trick or two up your sleeve!!!
 
If you go for the waterford, you normally only need 0.25" bigger - but I'd be very impressed if you got the acavello bit guards over the cheeks of the Nelson ..... I know they're stretchy but I didn't think they were that stretchy!!

Pelhams/curb bits tend to encourage cobby types to tuck their nose into their chests.....

I would be tempted to try a kineton noseband - so that you can let him go and bring him back more effectively. The difficulty of horses that put their noses in their chests, is trying to get them to take their nose forward. Stronger bits won't help, as he'll just overbend more. Does he bring his nose out if you lighten the contact?
 
I'm in a similar situation to you carolineb, my 15.1 coloured gelding sets his neck against me out hacking. Already using a Nelson gag with a roller lozenge, which does help but he really leans down into it. Thinking about trying a Waterford Nelson, however do not want to spend a fortune on a NS or Abbey bit! Found one on Cotswold Sport but it is out of stock in his size, normally a 5" so would go for a 5.25"/135mm.

Did you get your hands on one to try out over Christmas? Would be interested to see how you got on if so.

Shona
 
tonto82 said:
I'm in a similar situation to you carolineb, my 15.1 coloured gelding sets his neck against me out hacking. Already using a Nelson gag with a roller lozenge, which does help but he really leans down into it. Thinking about trying a Waterford Nelson, however do not want to spend a fortune on a NS or Abbey bit! Found one on Cotswold Sport but it is out of stock in his size, normally a 5" so would go for a 5.25"/135mm.

Did you get your hands on one to try out over Christmas? Would be interested to see how you got on if so.

Shona
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I have tried quite a few things but what has really helped actually is having flatwork lessons and learning how to ride my horse more from the seat than the hand. It has made a huge difference out hacking and hunting which surprised me!!

I did try a NS waterford nelson gag but didn't like using it much and to be honest, I didn't feel it made much difference. Have you thought of trying a low ported pelham (the thinner the better) - I changed to one of them and it worked really well.

I've found less is more with mine (excluding hunting!!) - he is very happy in a CS tongue saver eggbutt snaffle with a cavesson noseband for everything bar hunting. Because I can ride him better after our months and months of lessons, I don't hold on to him at all and he doesn't pull. It has taken a long time though!!
 
I have a very strong hunter, I find mine gets wise to bits so I have to swap between a cheltenham gag with rope cheeks, (leather is useless on him) and a waterford dutch gag on the bottom ring. He used to go well in a pelham , but he got fed up of that after a few seasons.
 
I'm worried a Pelham would make him put his chin to chest more, he ducks his head to the right of his chest in walk and sometimes trot, trying to catch the bit I'm assuming. We are doing more hacking now than we have in the past and he is finding his confidence, and pushing boundaries...! Schooling he wears a double jointed eggbutt snaffle, goes well enough in it I think, he does stretch down into it a lot though. I'm guilty of not doing enough schooling at this time of year as he gets very bored by it also and can be very lazy in the school. It's one thing after another!

Carolineb just noticed your post was from December 2015!!!
 
Hoof_prints I have rope cheeks also, can try those too. Why do you think there is such a difference between them and leather cheeks?
 
The pelham ended up useless in the end, just wasn't enough and he could set against it. I had to teach him to come on to an entirely light contact as a reward for listening. Haha i hadn't noticed the date on the post either! but my leather ones just don't act fast enough and they seem to stick, the rope slides quickly and he really feels it when I ask even subtle aids. I took my now retired mare in the leather ones and had to take her home, might as well have been in a snaffle!
 
Oh yes,been there. A Liverpool driving bit didint even stop my tank of a Connemara. He's not hunting again ever!
 
I dont think I could take Tonto hunting, he would think he was at Ascot! I normally hack with one other person, sometimes two but the more horses there are the more naughty he is, we are making slow progress though and he isn't nasty, just very excitable.....! Will try the rope cheeks!
 
I have an event horse who is super strong cross country but also sensitive in the mouth. I use a Cheltenham gag with rope cheeks for xc- they slide through faster than leather so you can take & give again faster without them getting the chance to lean. Someone suggested a Waterford Elevator to me but I know mine wouldn't tolerate the Waterford mouthpiece, might work for you?
 
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