Bitting advice, strong whilst hacking

[Scottynewbie]

Hello. Please can the more experienced here offer me some advice! I've spent a long time googling bit options so would like some proper advice please. My pony is, basically, feeling very good, happy and full of herself at the moment. Full of summer grass, the temperature's dropping a bit and life is good!

However, for me it means she has tanked off with me several times recently when her feet hit grass.

Her head goes up, she opens her mouth and she goes.

Currently ridden in a mullen mouth eggbutt snaffle which she is very comfortable in but I doesn't give me much in the way of breaks. In the past I've tried a kimblewick but she really didn't like it. I've also tried a pelham (mullen mouth as well) which we got on fine with, but it's just a bit big and bulky on her.

I've been looking at a loose ring bevel as a possible option? What would you think? The mullen mouth suits her and I was wondering whether to stick with it. But is it the best option with a bevel? Or should I be looking at a jointed mouthpiece instead to be more effective?

Opinions please!

 

[Barton Bounty]

Bevel or a dutch gag ?

 

[Scottynewbie]

Thank you! I was drawn to bevel as less bulky than the dutch gag. What would you think about mouthpiece?

 

[mini_b]

Gag bits have a head raising action.
Dutch gag & Wilkie/beval are leverage bits which apply quite a lot of poll pressure.

if she’s chucking her head up, why not try a Pelham with the same mouth piece you are using now?

or stick same bit, different noseband. Mine gets strong XC so use a grackle.

 

[southerncomfort]

Do you have a bit fitter covering your area?

I had a bit fitter out yesterday and it was an absolute revelation. She knew straight away which bit we should try (another snaffle but with slightly different mouthpiece) and the difference was amazing. He instantly stopped fussing in his mouth and was so relaxed and rideable.

Works out much cheaper than buying several bits to try and sending them back too.

ETA that we've also been working on exercises in our riding lessons to slow him down and refocus his attention on the rider when he's very keen!

 

[Scottynewbie]

Thanks both! I've tried the pelham but just not keen on it. I know, it's going to be a bit of trial and error as no bit fitter unfortunately, I wish I here was, it would be great! So just trying to narrow down to the most likely options before I start buying anything.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would try a bevel and a grackle noseband .

 

[Birker2020]

I think you should consider a thinner mouthpiece
You said you'd tried a pelham (mullen mouth as well) which we got on fine with, but it's just a bit big and bulky on her.
The NS pelham worked a treat with my horse, who was dutch and had a thick tongue. It has a thinner mouthpiece and suited her better than the mullen mouth that was hurting the bars of her mouth.

The Neue Schule trans angled pelham https://nsbits.com/products/mouthpiece/tranz-angled-lozenge/tranz-angled-lozenge-pelham-2
The Neue Schule trans angled loose ring lozenge bit https://nsbits.com/products/mouthpiece/tranz-angled-lozenge/tranz-angled-lozenge-2
The Neue Schule eggbut snaffle https://nsbits.com/products/mouthpiece/tranz-angled-lozenge/tranz-angled-lozenge-eggbutt

 

[mini_b]

I think you should consider a thinner mouthpiece
You said you'd tried a pelham (mullen mouth as well) which we got on fine with, but it's just a bit big and bulky on her.
The NS pelham worked a treat with my horse, who was dutch and had a thick tongue. It has a thinner mouthpiece and suited her better than the mullen mouth that was hurting the bars of her mouth.

The Neue Schule trans angled pelham https://nsbits.com/products/mouthpiece/tranz-angled-lozenge/tranz-angled-lozenge-pelham-2
The Neue Schule trans angled loose ring lozenge bit https://nsbits.com/products/mouthpiece/tranz-angled-lozenge/tranz-angled-lozenge-2
The Neue Schule eggbut snaffle https://nsbits.com/products/mouthpiece/tranz-angled-lozenge/tranz-angled-lozenge-eggbutt

also thought this. Had a horse that didn’t get on with a Mullen mouth Pelham but really liked a bomber Pelham.

 

[Scottynewbie]

Thank you Birker. Why would you be thinking a thinner mouthpiece (not against the idea at all, just interested)? I do like the look of the NS pelham you linked to, it's just overall much less bulky than any other pelhams I've seen, I'd be interested in trying that.

 

[TPO]

I'd look at training over a stronger bit/noseband to shut mouth as a starter.

Teach bending to a stop/one rein stop on thr ground and then ridden.

Yes some horses are strong, or however you want to phrase it, but being "tanked off with several times" is a training issue. No matter the severity of the bit or how tightly the noseband ties the mouth shut a horse it won't fix a problem at the root cause and a horse determined to go can run through any tack set up

 

[Birker2020]

Thank you Birker. Why would you be thinking a thinner mouthpiece (not against the idea at all, just interested)? I do like the look of the NS pelham you linked to, it's just overall much less bulky than any other pelhams I've seen, I'd be interested in trying that.

I used a mullen mouth pelham before with a raised port on my last horse and the EDT came out to do a routine tooth rasp and said there was slight calcification starting due to the action of the bit and the fact that Bailey used to pull to a fence when out jumping.

So he suggested a thinner mouthpiece as a lot of horses have a mouth conformation that warrant such a bit. He initially wanted her in snaffle, but she used to get quite excited jumping so I said that I would have to use a pelham only so he conceded and suggested the NS trans angled pelham. The difference was amazing. Here is a link which explains it better than I ever could.

https://www.onlineforequine.co.uk/b...es are also useful,and a more responsive ride.

 

[Scottynewbie]

Thank you so much, Birker, for explaining it to me, that's really appreciated and makes sense. The Happy Mouth mullens are quite thick, so I think I'll have a look at the NS version.

TPO - it's not actually as bad as it sounds, I was probably being a bit overdramatic! She DID tank off with me once, on grass, but came back under control quite quickly (the one rein stop worked wonders!). She has also tried it on a few times recently, but never actually bombed off, but got very strong and not wanting to listen. But I do agree that there is always room for more schooling.

 

[TPO]

?

Second @southerncomfort 's post about getting a bit fitter rather than trial and error if at all possible.

 

[Quigleyandme]

I have a bit and bridle fitter coming later today. I have one youngster very unhappy in the mouth and I think this is the way to go rather than trial and error for us anyway.

 

[Leandy]

I'm not sure I know what you mean about a pelham being bulky? If it fits then it shouldn't be especially if you look at metal with a narrower mouth piece rather than rubber, vulcanite, happy mouth etc etc. Anyway if you didn't like it, how about a kimblewick? Same idea but neater, less leverage and only one rein.

 

[Scottynewbie]

I am very envious of those of you who can get the bitter out - that would be SO good!! But trial and error it is for me .
Hi Leandy, it's not the mouthpiece that was bulky, it was the rings and shank - it just wouldn't sit nicely on her face, I tried 2 different ones but just couldn't get on with them. But the NS one that's been recommended on here looks much neater. Tried the kimblewick as my first choice, it works for so many ponies, but no - she just didn't like it at all unfortunately.

 

[splashgirl45]

i used to ride my nutty mare in a dutch gag with 2 reins... the bottom rein was my last resort if i was out of control going towards a road, so i rode virtually all of the time on the top rein so in effect just a snaffle. i hardly ever had to use the bottom rein but it gave me piece of mind knowing that i had a safety net..i know it can be a training issue but for a 20 year old set in her ways training didnt work for us

 

[Birker2020]

I am very envious of those of you who can get the bitter out - that would be SO good!! But trial and error it is for me .
Hi Leandy, it's not the mouthpiece that was bulky, it was the rings and shank - it just wouldn't sit nicely on her face, I tried 2 different ones but just couldn't get on with them. But the NS one that's been recommended on here looks much neater. Tried the kimblewick as my first choice, it works for so many ponies, but no - she just didn't like it at all unfortunately.

Its coated with Salox too which means its warmer in the horses mouth
https://nsbits.com/knowledge_base/salox-sound-science-good-sense

 

[vhf]

Have a look in your horse's mouth. A bit fitter would do this and know what to look for but as you don't have one...
For example, I have a strong-necked mare who can be rude and just ignore me if she feels like it. Natural thought was to use a kimblewick, but as soon as I tried it I realised that the port, designed to take pressure off her tongue, was touching the roof of her mouth and she HATED it (not surprisingly!) - she has a very low palate. If there's a lot of tongue and not much space, then a thick mouthpiece will be uncomfortable. A very narrow mouth, and some double jointed bits poke in all the wrong places. The rude behaviour may not be caused by her bit (and so if you think about it, might not be solved by it either!) but using the wrong bit could make things worse not better, hence worth having a really good look at what you're dealing with before you spend your money. Same thing applies with changing a noseband. If the bit is uncomfortable to start with and then you try and shut their mouth with a different noseband, you could get a dramatic response but not in a good way.
Education and training are key - so is spotting bad habits, like always cantering when you hit grass - but they aren't an instant fix and safety is important. Just do remember that a bit/noseband change may only be treating the symptoms (bogging off) and not the cause (expects to be in charge of exciting occasions). You'll have to face up to it eventually!

 

[maya2008]

In general I go from snaffle (least control), to Dutch gag (little more than snaffle but best with rubber ‘biscuits’ as can pinch - doesn’t really raise the head but does provide a bit more leverage), to Tom Thumb (mega bucks control). Bonus with a Dutch gag is you can move the reins to have more control out hacking and then up onto the main ring for schooling (at which point it is basically just a hanging cheek). I have boxes and boxes of bits, but have rarely needed more than the above (had one who bucked like a trooper as a youngster so she had a true gag, and one that ran through all the above out xc so had a Pelham, but that was it).

I would also add that you need your horse between hand and leg and their head down for the above to have much of an effect. If their head is up, bit jammed behind the teeth then they can’t really feel anything. I know people stick on martingales and nosebands and all sorts for that, but in reality, riding properly with appropriate ‘firepower’ (just enough that they respect you and no more) in terms of bit works just fine.