Bitting Egyptian Horses (also in CR)

Aces_High

Aces_High

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A musing.....

As you know I am heading off to Cairo, due to not being a vet or a farrier I have taken it upon myself to try and help educate the Egytians about saddlery, harnesses, horse welfare and husbandry.

A fellow HHO has kindly offered to give me some head collars and asked if I wanted to take any bits out. Now my quandary is this....

I personally do not think we should be sticking snaffles into all of these horses mouths. I do not not know how strong the animal is or if it's ridden and driven or just driven etc. Obviously if there is anything inhumane or that has been fashioned from scrap metal then yes I would intend to confiscate it and give them another bit to replace it.

So I am interested in other peoples views on this and my main question is
How do we bit these horses?

We need to take into consideration that generally speaking you do not see driven horses in the UK in snaffles so driving people I'd love your views as well.
 
Personally , I think anything you have is bound to be better than the bits of scrap metal most will have in their mouths. And no doubt the horses and owners will be grateful :)

Good luck
 
If you do not have a weight limit to worry about then take as many smaller snaffle or pelham bits without the curb chains as you can. As long as they are smooth mouthpieces they will be needed. Its not a case of the horses being strong as the ones out there will not be the well fed sparky driving horses you see here and any smooth mouth bit is going to be better than the bits of rope or wire that some will be having in their mouths at the moment.
 
Thanks Guys - Even though a lot of the horses are very underweight the majority of the photo's I have seen horses are in a curb bit of some sort. The hashed together tin can type bits are luckily quite few and far between and will certainly be confiscated, destroyed and replaced. I am just trying to think of which bit would be best. Crabbymare - I am sure that some of the horses are still going to be strong - I remember reading a thread on here I think and a poster had ridden a horse at the Pyramids and said how strong it was. I would hate to take a curb bit off someone and give them a snaffle and then an accident happened.
 
TBH I think they use whatever they have. IME being over there, most are ridden in snaffle regardless and they just get on with making it work. I would have though a few simple eggbutts would be welcome :)
 
Would it be worth having a chat to a charity thats already out there or has had some involvement with them? They might be able to give you a better idea :)
 
Tbf, anything is going to be an improvement on alot of the stuff out there!

I would be inclined to pack a stash of mullen mouth eggbutts or french link snaffles - there won't be many horses that will find a problem with them and they will be an enormous improvement in terms of welfare for the horse. I personally wouldn't want to pack single joint snaffles as if you have to make do with slightly wrong sizes then they are going to cause more discomfort if slightly out size wise than will a bar or french link.

I wouldn't imagine the strength of the horse to be a big issue - they aren't going to be well fed sparkly sorts and I would be suprised if many are started with consideration given to their mouth and way of going. I would just concentrate on getting something smooth and comfortable in their mouths.

I would def not take any kind of curb bit and leave off the chain as the chain is there to restrict how far the bit turns in the mouth. A fitted curb chain is an awful lot kinder to the horse than none!
 
Stencilface said:
Maybe contact the Gambia horse and donkey trust? I know they do bit runs out to gambia - not the same country but probably has many of the same issues :)

Go to How you can Help, then urgent bit appeal :)

http://www.gambiahorseanddonkey.org.uk/
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SF - at the Rossdales lecture I went to a week or so ago Pat showed me some pictures of what they had to deal with saddlery and tack wise in The Gambia and it's horrendous. The bits they have are even worse! I am going to go through all the footage I have from the different charities as well and look at the horses bridles to see what looks common. They seem to have a lot of ex army bits - the big ports and heavy metal with long shanks as such. To me this would be a fairly severe bit so unsure how they'd cope with a snaffle being put in.

AHoney - I've just had a google of Broomells - very smart tack/harnesses they have! I will look at the charity pages first and then contact them if all else fails.

Cop-Pop - it's very hard to actually contact anyone from the clinics we are joining out there. They work very long hours and I am yet to have replies to emails I sent several weeks ago!
I'm on the lookout for anything which is Zilco to take out with me.
 
ThePony said:
Tbf, anything is going to be an improvement on alot of the stuff out there!

I would be inclined to pack a stash of mullen mouth eggbutts or french link snaffles - there won't be many horses that will find a problem with them and they will be an enormous improvement in terms of welfare for the horse. I personally wouldn't want to pack single joint snaffles as if you have to make do with slightly wrong sizes then they are going to cause more discomfort if slightly out size wise than will a bar or french link.

I wouldn't imagine the strength of the horse to be a big issue - they aren't going to be well fed sparkly sorts and I would be suprised if many are started with consideration given to their mouth and way of going. I would just concentrate on getting something smooth and comfortable in their mouths.

I would def not take any kind of curb bit and leave off the chain as the chain is there to restrict how far the bit turns in the mouth. A fitted curb chain is an awful lot kinder to the horse than none!
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My next question..... I'll be bitting horses, donkeys and mules. Any idea on what sizes to take out?! I am assuming most of the horses will be Arabs and they do not appear to have very big mouths in my experience anyway. I don't think we need to worry about lots of WB types being there. There might be the odd draft horse etc - again, I'd be unsure as to what to put in a draft horses mouth :eek: Not sure I'd want to drive a draft horse in a french link!!
 
I would think most of the horses will be 15.2 and under fine types, prob no more than a 5" bit?

Is it time for HHO bit collection?! ;) :)
 
Thank you :) :)

Would you like to start a thread and see who can offer any bits? I can give my address to you for them to be mailed directly to me or I can do a collection from Newmarket.... Oh what sizes would a donkey wear as they have tiny teeny mouths. We will be going out every 3 months so we can get stuff out fairly regularly - it really is exciting!!!
 
Aces-high I have a friend who is a qualified vet currently working in Luxor, would you like me to send her a message on FB? She may well be able to recommend which bits are the best for you to take out.
 
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I'd go with smaller sizes too. I guess donkeys have wee mouths so you'll prob have to start pretty small, say 3 1/2 or 4? Also wouldn't bother going more than 5" (even my stocky 15.3 mare only has a 5 1/4 and if you take out eggbutts then you don't have a pinching issue so if necessary, although not ideal, you could get away with one v v slightly too small)

It might be worth your while calling uk bit companys and doing a bit of a beg! Shires, Korstell, cottage craft and abbey bits could all be worth a go? If the don't give you any joy then you could also try tack shops like robinsons etc. Even if each place only give you a few, if a few get generous then you are getting a good collection! A public thank you on the cairo farrier page and when ever the topic comes up is nice publicity for a company!
 
ThePony said:
I'd go with smaller sizes too. I guess donkeys have wee mouths so you'll prob have to start pretty small, say 3 1/2 or 4? Also wouldn't bother going more than 5" (even my stocky 15.3 mare only has a 5 1/4 and if you take out eggbutts then you don't have a pinching issue so if necessary, although not ideal, you could get away with one v v slightly too small)

It might be worth your while calling uk bit companys and doing a bit of a beg! Shires, Korstell, cottage craft and abbey bits could all be worth a go? If the don't give you any joy then you could also try tack shops like robinsons etc. Even if each place only give you a few, if a few get generous then you are getting a good collection! A public thank you on the cairo farrier page and when ever the topic comes up is nice publicity for a company!
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The sizes needed are quite small,again I have friends at the RVC who did a bit collection for Egypt a couple of years ago.
 
spottybotty said:
Aces-high I have a friend who is a qualified vet currently working in Luxor, would you like me to send her a message on FB? She may well be able to recommend which bits are the best for you to take out.
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SB - that would be really really kind thank you!!! I know Pat who was also in Luxor I assume stuck most of them in snaffles but I really feel it has to be something which works for the people and the horses. I do not believe we should throw our views upon them but to gently suggest and show how we do things which in turn could be productive for them. I have a funny little mantra I've written to follow whilst I am away!

ThePony - I have contacted some saddlery's in my area regarding Zilco bridles and synthetic head collars. So fingers crossed. We would always thank and publicly announce any support we have had from companies.

I will send Kirstyl a message now! :)
 
To be honest when I go to Morocco (yes I know it's not the same but it is in Africa and it is an Arabic country too), the first thing they ask for is a bit. They can fashion bridles and headcollars from old bailing twine and rope but bits are harder to come by. It would be worth having a collection from riding and livery stables for donations. I promise you, anything is better than what they already have. Best of British luck!
 
millreef said:
To be honest when I go to Morocco (yes I know it's not the same but it is in Africa and it is an Arabic country too), the first thing they ask for is a bit. They can fashion bridles and headcollars from old bailing twine and rope but bits are harder to come by. It would be worth having a collection from riding and livery stables for donations. I promise you, anything is better than what they already have. Best of British luck!
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Thank you - really appreciate your comments - I owe you an email as well but so manic at the moment.

A friend has just returned from Morocco on business and he was saying that he was impressed with how things are changing towards the horses in Morocco - I did mention you!

Thanks again :)
 
Having been out there myself and seen alot of the horses I think that you would be better taking mullen mouth snaffles and french links mostly, maybe a couple of kimblewicks and hanging cheek snaffles with french link. In smaller bit sizes, all the horses out their are fine and dainty, no draft horses anywhere... You may be supprised that actually some of the horses are voice/movement (driving horses espically and mostly in Ciaro) trained so the bit dosnt actually get used for much.

I think that without you going out there and looking at each horse's individual needs you can't predict which bits you will need to take. If you are asking for people to donate bits then take everything and anything within reason! I bet that you can find a horse out there that suits in anyway.
 
Some pictures that i took of the horses when i was out there November 2011

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This horse below was actually in a loose ring snaffle and was more used to voice commands than anything else, spent sometime talking to his owner. Note the makeshift boot on his hind leg.
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lialls said:
Having been out there myself and seen alot of the horses I think that you would be better taking mullen mouth snaffles and french links mostly, maybe a couple of kimblewicks and hanging cheek snaffles with french link. In smaller bit sizes, all the horses out their are fine and dainty, no draft horses anywhere... You may be supprised that actually some of the horses are voice/movement (driving horses espically and mostly in Ciaro) trained so the bit dosnt actually get used for much.

I think that without you going out there and looking at each horse's individual needs you can't predict which bits you will need to take. If you are asking for people to donate bits then take everything and anything within reason! I bet that you can find a horse out there that suits in anyway.
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Lialls - thank you very much. Fantastic photos. I am going to see if people can donate any spare bits that they no longer use and I think you're right - take them all out and hand them out as I see fit. I mentioned the draft horses as I have seen a few photo's of them at the ESMA horse feedings so assumed there might be a few there. When were you last in Cairo?
 
Aces_High said:
Lialls - thank you very much. Fantastic photos. I am going to see if people can donate any spare bits that they no longer use and I think you're right - take them all out and hand them out as I see fit. I mentioned the draft horses as I have seen a few photo's of them at the ESMA horse feedings so assumed there might be a few there. When were you last in Cairo?
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I was in Cairo end of November 2011. I also visited Luxor which had many donkeys and horses milling around the place too! Most people we spoke to and saw there were happy to talk about their horses and were very willing to take advice and interested in how it treat/care for ect our horses over here. All the horses were well behaved and clearly some owners had a real understanding and bond with their horse which was pleasent to see. I didn't really see any abuse as such out there, more just limited knowledge, money and resorces but they were all very greatful of any advice given to them.

Good luck!!
 
lialls said:
I was in Cairo end of November 2011. I also visited Luxor which had many donkeys and horses milling around the place too! Most people we spoke to and saw there were happy to talk about their horses and were very willing to take advice and interested in how it treat/care for ect our horses over here. All the horses were well behaved and clearly some owners had a real understanding and bond with their horse which was pleasent to see. I didn't really see any abuse as such out there, more just limited knowledge, money and resorces but they were all very greatful of any advice given to them.

Good luck!!
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Thank you Lialls,
You have hit the nail on the head, I also believe that the majority of the problem is due to a lack of knowledge and teaching and being in a poorer country. I would like to try and get across that some basic welfare and husbandry will in turn give the equines a greater longevity and higher productivity which brings it full circle to more money on their tables. It's a humanitarian as well as animal welfare project/product which we hope to provide. I am sooooo excited as well as a little nervous. I have some friends who've been working at ACE which is a small clinic in Luxor and locally we do some fundraising for them. I am really thrilled with what you've posted.
 
I have quite a few snaffles between 4.5 and 5 I'd be happy to donate if you let me know where. Also if you are taking bridles , poly pads or head collars let me know as I have those too
 
Just a thought re curb bits. Curb chains are likely to be a problem, as with the best will in the world, they aren't going to be fitted correctly. Might it be worth seeing if someone like Shires would be prepared to donate some elastic curb chains?
 
OP have you checked out Prince FLuffy Kareem on Facebook (sorry cant post link!).
They are a small group of individuals involved in improving the health and welfare of the local horses around the pyramids in Egypt.
They treat any animals they come across including camels, and have done wonderful local initiatives like designing, making and distributing saddle pads to help with the terrible saddle sores they see.
They are always looking for stuff to be donated although stuff cant be posted as Customs are a problem!
Continental Rescue and Rehab (also on facebook) are similar but tend to help individuals horses.
Well worth checking out!!!!
 
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