Bitting Egyptian Horses (also in CR)

angel7 said:
OP have you checked out Prince FLuffy Kareem on Facebook (sorry cant post link!).
They are a small group of individuals involved in improving the health and welfare of the local horses around the pyramids in Egypt.
They treat any animals they come across including camels, and have done wonderful local initiatives like designing, making and distributing saddle pads to help with the terrible saddle sores they see.
They are always looking for stuff to be donated although stuff cant be posted as Customs are a problem!
Continental Rescue and Rehab (also on facebook) are similar but tend to help individuals horses.
Well worth checking out!!!!
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Hi Angel7 - yes I am on the PFK page and it was from there that we decided to set up our own organisation (soon have charity status :) :) ) to help the horses and to educate and work with the owners. We are linking up with ESAF and ESMA and we also follow CRR who have been superb. We are looking at helping throughout Africa so we are going to be an on going concern. We also want to take saddle and harness makers on another trip as all the materials can be sourced locally and teach the owners and locals on how to make their own harnesses etc. It's going to take a lot of hard work, probably some tears and a lot of education but it's achievable in my mind. Our team fly out this month and we are taking supplies of farrier tools, headcollars, bits, bridles etc. I also intend on running some fun things for the children to help them develop a bond with their animals.
Please excuse spelling etc - just had a heap of jabs and not feeling 100% to say the least!
 
Great news!!
However I find it a bit galling and disheartening that huge charities like the Brooke and SPANA which have been doing these kinds of things seem to have made little progress in so many years. Or am I being cynical...

I find it strange that if the Brooke, for example, have been teaching local people how to make tack and harness for themselves why is there still so much awful harness about? One trained person would train those around him apprentice style, and within a few years there should have been a natural spread of trained people to train more and so on and these would move into the surrounding areas. After say 20 years I would expect a huge improvement in harness in a large area- but there doesn't seem to be.

Is the shortage of tools, materials and starting costs the problem? I really don't know.


I wonder would it be cheaper to use charity money to buy safe snaffle bits in the country you are in (as in several hundred), and then distribute these to those that need it, coupled with education on safe use? Within a few days you could have helped the horses of entire towns. Or do you collect unwanted bits here- plenty nickle ones now no one wants, and ship them over at great cost, something to look at perhaps.

Anyway good luck in your worka and keep us posted.
 
Brooke have just come huge trumps up as they have said they are going to continue to support the ESMA horse feedings which is fantastic news. We announced it on our page earlier on this week. The Brooke are good at what they do but seem to be looking at the whole picture and they feel it's more appropriate to tackle the problem by educating the children which I fully support. I do agree that if they have trained harness and saddlers etc we should be seeing better results but I think a lot of it is lack of money as well as lack of education still with in the countries. Trying to change someones mindset when they've been practising it for 100's of years is always going to be difficult. I am not sure as to how readily available bits are to buy out there. There is somewhere where headcollars etc can be purchased. We have a team including myself flying out this month and we are taking supplies with us. At this moment in time I would not feel happy funding an unknown's bank account with the thinking that they are going to buy supplies and hand them out in Egypt. This takes time and understanding and trust. We only set up in January and things have gone from strength to strength which is brilliant. I am happy to take out a selection of bits as I think as far as possible we need to bit them as individuals and has been posted on here, as long as it's not sharp and jagged anything is better. Another poster on here was saying that a lot of the communication from owner to horse is done through the voice so the severity of the bit isn't as much of an issue as was first thought. Where The Brooke are so lucky is they have been established for years and receive HUGE amounts in donations. Both my friend and I work full time, I have two horses who live at home and everything we do for Cairo Farrier is for free - hence people getting replies to their emails at 0200!! I need a 30 hours day if I am really honest :)
 
angel7 said:
I find it strange that if the Brooke, for example, have been teaching local people how to make tack and harness for themselves why is there still so much awful harness about? One trained person would train those around him apprentice style, and within a few years there should have been a natural spread of trained people to train more and so on and these would move into the surrounding areas. After say 20 years I would expect a huge improvement in harness in a large area- but there doesn't seem to be.

Is the shortage of tools, materials and starting costs the problem? I really don't know.
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I understand what you are say and can't get my head totaly around it either.

However I believe that in recent years peoples prioities have turned to their family and their own wellbeing before their animals due to the down turn in their economie (due to the fighting and also the shark scare). Its a downward spiral as say for example the shark slightings and attack made poeple not want to travel to Egypt, thus less tourists spending their money there, local people then lose some income, due to lower income they chose to feed their family before their horses - and everything else follows on from that.

While I was there it became quite clear that the Egypitian people had been struggling on for a while with their government turning the country pretty much upside down but its not something that could be seen from where we are standing, it was done internially and not broadcasted, if you see what i mean so for us it looked like the country was getting along fine but actually if you speak to the Egyptian people they will tell you its been quitely going on for a while. Hence why their knowledge and skill hasn't grown as we would have predicted/liked as they are worrying about their own family before their horse.

Its a sad state and I dont think that the country will ever really grow either. It has nothing to grow in to.

The only thing we can do is try to help them with their horses and animals so that they have a better life.
 
Yes I suppose it is the difficulty of changing a culture as much as anything else.
I am incensed the Brooke didn't step in sooner, surely having a base in Egypt they were well aware of what was occuring there?

Aces I don't mean giving the money to a third party over there- I mean you guys buying the bits and whatevers needed and distributing it yourselves as required.

What was most interesting to me was the Real war horse program on channel 4. Even in war, with men dying, the horses were cared for as a priority- the clip of the men bandaging the horses hoof and stroking it as it was led off said it all for me.

There just doesn't seem to be the empathy apparent in other countries that we have here. And I don't think its because of hardship. Decades ago crofters in the north of Scotland had a very hard life, little food and back braking manual labour to eake out a living on their tiny plot of land with taxes to pay ontop (sound familiar?)- their houses were built from whatever they had available, and they lived in one side while their working animals were bedded in the other. But there wasn't the level of cruelty to their working animals that seems to go on elsewhere in the world (photos and text shows the horses well covered and groomed, reasonably shod and with basic working harness on).

I believe we can all only lead by example and help those we come across to improve the care and lives of those we meet in life.
 
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angel7 said:
What was most interesting to me was the Real war horse program on channel 4. Even in war, with men dying, the horses were cared for as a priority- the clip of the men bandaging the horses hoof and stroking it as it was led off said it all for me.

There just doesn't seem to be the empathy apparent in other countries that we have here. And I don't think its because of hardship. Decades ago crofters in the north of Scotland had a very hard life, little food and back braking manual labour to eake out a living on their tiny plot of land with taxes to pay ontop (sound familiar?)- their houses were built from whatever they had available, and they lived in one side while their working animals were bedded in the other. But there wasn't the level of cruelty to their working animals that seems to go on elsewhere in the world (photos and text shows the horses well covered and groomed, reasonably shod and with basic working harness on).
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Cairo alone has a population of nearly 7 million - its not really something that you can compare to our country - but that said, the neglect that goes on in other countries is probably the same % as that that goes on here. We've all heard of spindles farm or know someone that dosn't quite give their horse the care it needs. It just looks worse in Cairo due to the large numbers of people. Its also so heavily populated and built up and years behind us in technology which means that horses are working animals over there.

There are a lot of people out there who do have horses and look after them to a very high standard but you won't see then because their horse's are in air conditioned stables and ridden when its dark under flood lights and they look in amazing condition and go lovely.


angel7 said:
I believe we can all only lead by example and help those we come across to improve the care and lives of those we meet in life.
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There are lots of issues surrounding Egypt which will take years to sort out, but i definitely agree with you on this one :)
 
Angel7 - I think that is a great idea in us buying the bits, equipment etc out there, I just do not know how readily available they will be. This is going to be a great opportunity to see what is available etc. I have only been to El Gouna in Egypt which is very smart so you cannot really say I've been to Egypt.

Lialls - I completely agree with everything you have said - would you like to come out with us?! The other thing which is really needed is a good understanding of their religion. A lot of people I have spoken to who have done a lot of Aid work as such have said that one you reach Western Africa where there is a bit more of a Christian in put their attitudes are different and more Western. I think with St Francis - patron saint of animals etc - does have some sort of reasoning in my thinking and that Mary rode a donkey prior to having Jesus. I was educated at a Catholic convent despite being CofE and we did a lot on different religions, I have heaps of friends of all different religions and one in particular who recently converted to Muslim and I find it all fascinating. As Angel7 - the empathy is what we would like to try and introduce but at the same time not taking anything away from the fact that these equines are working animals and the bread and butter for their owners. I am also lucky in that I've had horses which are there to do a job as in racehorses and I do understand that they are not pets - but it doesn't detract that they still should be looked after. I also agree with the comment about the families coming first. If any of us were in their situation of course we would feed our families before putting food into the mouth of an animal and again this is what the Westerners need to understand. It's going to be really interesting, tough, thought provoking and rewarding.
 
I would LOVE to come!! :D

I think that you are hitting the tail on the head with what you've said as well! Best of luck and keep us updated!
 
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