Bitting issue - gurning with all mouthpieces..!

tobiano1984

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Hopefully someone will have a bright idea about this as I'm stumped..! One of my friends/liveries has a lovely big traditional Irish cob who she predominantly does dressage with, as well as hacking and jumping. She's spent a fortune on trying to find a bit he likes, but nothing seems to work!

The issue - he gurns all the time when being ridden in a contact - lips flapping about, jaw crossing, tilting head. Nothing extreme but just not right. He does the same with any rider so it's not her. He's ridden in a drop noseband at the moment and has been for a year or so, previously in a flash. Fine in a bitless bridle, although obviously no use for dressage.

I rode him in a ported Pelham and he was better, although again no use for BD. He's tried Myler, Bomber, NS, french link, eggbutt, single joint etc. All tried for a good length of time as well, not just chopping and changing. Has his teeth checked every few months, never really has an issue. Has had Osteopathy regularly, including thorough checks of head and jaw - no overdevelopment or anything. Does occasionally get stiff on the diagonal hind, probably linked to his jaw crossing. The only comment the dentist has was that he was a very fat tongue and big lips that fold inwards. But so far every bitting expert his owner has spoken to has failed to come up with a solution.

Any bright ideas here? As above, must be dressage legal. But he has a loose ring high ported Bomber snaffle and that doesn't seem to make it any better so I don't think that's a solution anyway. Just a bit stumped!

Anything else to check?! He's also a funny character - when he has a new bit in he clamps his mouth shut and looks very strange, like he can't possibly open it. It's frustrating as he's very well schooled and does a lovely test, bar all the gurning!
 

poiuytrewq

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Very interesting thread which I will watch excitedly as I have your fiends horses double in that respect!
Does he do it on a loose rein or just on a contact?
 

tobiano1984

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I think I'd be exploring the possibility of getting the jaw x-rayed, just to be sure there is no underlying issue to be ruled out.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.


A possibility, although dentist/osteo couldn't find any lumps/pain/anything to suggest a need to x-ray so I think she'd rather avoid this for now.
 

ester

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In a plain mullen mouth with a hanging cheek? - this keeps the bit very still, although probably more for fussy than gurnings! Do you know which NS?
 

tobiano1984

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In a plain mullen mouth with a hanging cheek? - this keeps the bit very still, although probably more for fussy than gurnings! Do you know which NS?

I think she was warned off a straight mullen as he has such a fat tongue it would chop it in half, but always worth a try! NS - I think just the Verbindend as it seemed to give the most tongue space whilst being BD legal...
 

*hic*

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Once you decide on a couple more bits to try, attach them to a slip head and use fulmer loops to keep them steady if possible. Don't attach reins for the first week.
 

Wheels

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Difficult one but I would think that if she has tried that many different bits and with no improvement with any that it is something else that is maybe stressing him out when being ridden and he is showing it through this behaviour and/or he was never properly bitted in the beginning.

If it were my horse I would get a second opinion on the teeth, a different physio and a different saddler to check everything is in fact OK and maybe the vet too just to see if there are other potential issues that have been overlooked as it's really no use trying to sort this out if there is a soreness anywhere.

Then I would go for a relatively thin mouthpiece, single joint full cheek, eggbutt or hanging cheek snaffle so that the bit is as still as possible and then I would work the horse in-hand with the help of a classical type trainer - you can focus totally on the horses relationship with the bit and bridle without having to worry about anything else - then you can see if it really is a bitting issue or not
 

madlady

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See this is one of the reasons me and D never took up dressage - she doesn't like any of the dressage legal bits and fidgets like mad in anything with a joint.

The bits she goes best in are ported and her being happy was more important than us doing dressage. I really do think that it's about time BD bucked it's ideas up as their attitude to bits is archaic given the advancements these days - totally ridiculous to not allow bitless!

Anyway sorry for hijacking and venting - I'm another one who's following with interest!
 

samlf

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Sounds very similar to my girl - she headshakes violently in a bit she doesn't like. She absolutely despised NS, doesn't like anything with a lozenge or French link, is ok in a single joint but much prefers either a port of mullen mouth (despite being an ID with big tongue etc).

However, I did manage to find the perfect bit now that is dressage legal - Jefferies eldonian http://www.ejeffries.co.uk/p/barrel-mouth-eggbutt?pp=24
It looks so innocuous but each side of the barrel moves independently, has copper inlays and is curved mouth. I'd definitely recommend giving it a go!
 

tobiano1984

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Sounds very similar to my girl - she headshakes violently in a bit she doesn't like. She absolutely despised NS, doesn't like anything with a lozenge or French link, is ok in a single joint but much prefers either a port of mullen mouth (despite being an ID with big tongue etc).

However, I did manage to find the perfect bit now that is dressage legal - Jefferies eldonian http://www.ejeffries.co.uk/p/barrel-mouth-eggbutt?pp=24
It looks so innocuous but each side of the barrel moves independently, has copper inlays and is curved mouth. I'd definitely recommend giving it a go!

How much movement does the Jeffries one have? Because the horse in question has tried the Myler comfort snaffle, which looks similar, and didn't get on brilliantly (not terrible mind), but then the comfort snaffle still has quite a lot of movement...
 

figgy

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I would ask my vet to watch me ride, if I couldnt find a bit he was happy in.
More many be going on that you can't see.
Good luck
 

tink101

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Second trying the Micklem, but would also try the NS turtle top. Mine has a huuuuge tongue, it almost folds over in one place and the turtle has been a total revelation for her. 1000000x better to the contact and much more consistent and most importantly she's really happy
 

Cowpony

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Could the issue perhaps be not the bit but the fact that his mouth is strapped shut? Might be worth trying the same bits but without the flash or drop. I took my horse's flash off for flat work a few months ago and she's become much more consistent in the contact. Only use it for jumping now, and even then I sometimes forget for SJ.
 

rara007

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Informed design snaffles are dressage legal as not ported. Worked for mine that couldn't cope with either single or double jointed.
 

lamlyn2012

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Another vote for the informed designs mullen hanging cheek. It's the only bit my welsh D will settle in (other than mullen rubber pelham) . It is dressage legal.
 

wench

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For the cost of hiring and buying loads of different bits, it could just be as well to get the jaw xrayed to see if owt going on
 

samlf

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How much movement does the Jeffries one have? Because the horse in question has tried the Myler comfort snaffle, which looks similar, and didn't get on brilliantly (not terrible mind), but then the comfort snaffle still has quite a lot of movement...

It's an eggbutt so not as much movement as a loose ring (she doesn't like much movement), but each side can be moved independently of the other if you catch my drift?
I honestly didn't think it'd work for her, but somehow it's really soft and comfortable but theres enough going on that she doesn't just ignore it, and she loves it.
 
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